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Ben Lipman
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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 06:22 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not affiliated with this club in any way, nor do I live in Brisbane. I do however think the other thread is so far out of control a new one needs to be started. (I'm ashamed to say I was part of it). Hopefully this thread will not become another characteristically Soarer Central rant fest.

So, please feel free to use your keyboards to bash each other to death in the other thread.

Use this thread for discussion on the topic, which is an invitation to join another car club.}

Original post is copied below.


Simon Martin wrote on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 10:43 am:

Hey guys, just for anyone who's interested. There's a christian car club based out of Citipointe church in Mansfield, Brisbane. Anyone is welcome to join, all cars.
They organise cruises and track/dyno days, get together and fix up donor cars etc.

www.godspeedcc.com.au if you'd like to join. Cheers


Miles Baker
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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 07:42 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding this topic which is the invitation to join another car club... why do you feel you need to issue invitations to a club you don't belong to nor have any affiliation with nor even live in the same state as?
Brett Cutts
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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 12:25 am, by:  Brett Cutts (Boof390) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

probably because its the right thing to do after the disaster that was the other thread.
look in to it if you are interested in joining a christian based car group
or
ignore it if you are like me and have no interest in getting involved in anything church based for what ever reason
James Harris
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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 12:57 am, by:  James Harris (Haro) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not my kind of car club.

And im not interested in weighing in on that other thread. It has gone WAAAAAY off topic into some kind of moral highground battle.

ugh
Aaron Mead
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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 06:40 am, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I joined. Ill let you know if anything untoward comes up.
Simon Martin
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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 09:26 am, by:  Simon Martin (Commander) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ben :-)

Aaron I don't know what you mean by untoward. It's a christian car club so if you think we're not going to be talking about all things christian/church in some places on the forum then I don't know what you're looking for lol
Rob Rojo
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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 10:31 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is Soarer Central,
Why are people advertising other forums or clubs on here regardless of the nature.
If your looking for another forum or trying to recruit members use google or other avenues.

You don't see channel 10 advertising on channel 9.
Or Ford advertising in Holden dealerships.

Bit rude in my opinion.
Ben Lipman
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 07:05 am, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because this is a FORUM, meaning it is a place for discussion.

Soarer Central is not now, nor has it ever been a 'club'.

People constantly invite SC forum members to other forums and clubs. For example:

"for sale...pics can be found here"

"here is a link to the Circuit Club track day"

"a full write up in this thread"

"the XYZ crew are organising a..."

and so on.

I have done it, and will continue to do so whenever I think it will help someone out with info, hook them up with so and so, or just provide them with another avenue.
David Vaughan
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 07:46 am, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rob did not say this was a club, Ben, so that part of your premise is irrelevant.

All of the examples you cite are perfectly fair in themselves, but not of the same ilk. The difference is that, at least at one time, this forum did not permit advertising other than on a private basis, unless there was accepted disclosure of the commercial interest or a sponsorship deal with the site owner.

That has been the key issue, but pro-religionists have taken the opportunity to avoid the point by getting sweaty over "offences" to their beliefs.
Simon Martin
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 09:17 am, by:  Simon Martin (Commander) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wait, who is the one that got offended?

I do believe you are the one who kicked and screamed about a christian car club, and still are. I'm not offended in the least about what you say about christianity, I'm merely defending the point about another car club that people might want to join.

You just can't bring yourself to leave it alone can you David.
Rob Rojo
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 09:54 am, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben,
I think there is a big difference between posting a link to a pic in another forum, or a upcoming trck day etc then to promote an unestablished website in the hope of gaining more members.

On another note the disclaimer on the godspeed website is a good one:

All information is kept strictly confidential and not given out EXCEPT if Inquiry or Prayer is deemed we needs external advice on handling certain situations (in other words if we don’t think we can help or cant comment we will give it to the club pastor) to contact our home church please go to
www.citipointe.com.au



So what part of that is confidential?
Miles Baker
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 09:58 am, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice.

And which demonination is that exactly? Looks like a Pentecostal Megachurch to me. And Simon did you tell us where you are a "sort of chaplain"?

If any of you want your details fed to the Pentecostals, good luck. They aren't your average Christians like Aaron etc are used to. These guys run their church like a business and almost a cult. They have recently branched into all sorts of creative new ways of sucking in younger members. Like rock concerts, and now.. car clubs. They get in contact with you under the guise of a common interest, then pressure the sh1t out of you to come to church. These scam institutions started about 30 years ago.

Pentecostals believe they can speak in tongues. At some of their services you will see people rolling around on the floor babbling jibberish because they think it means their mates will see them as holy. I am not making this up. They also as a rule believe their pastors can heal, and are told "special stuff" by spirits. They generally believe LITERALLY in the bible and their branch of christianity includes the rattlesnake handlers in America. Pentecostals are the one branch that are even wackier than the televangelists. You know the dude who recently said the earthquake was punishment for the Haitians making a deal with the devil? He's not even a Pentecostal. That dude is one step closer to normal than Pentecostal.
David Henderson
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:16 am, by:  David Henderson (Hendo) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Simon for the link, It looks like a great car club- I would probably join if I was in the area!

Being part of a car club which is not car/make specific would be cool because you could see other people's passions for cars you may not usually be interested in, and see differing perspectives on automotive enthusiasm.

I can think of other advantages of a club like this too. Like knowing that because it's not business based, the track and dyno days would probably be cheaper, and have more variety in the entrants.

Because it is affiliated with a Church, lots of people won't join, but others might jump at the opportunity. I like to talk to others about their faith but a church situation full of people I don't know is too full on.

I'd be just as happy to join, or at least check out a Buddhist, Islamic, Hindu etc... car club. Time spent traveling revealed to me that there is so much common ground between people all over, regardless of personal circumstance. It's easy to write people off and stereotype, I reckon it's more fun keep an open mind and talk to "different" people once in a while.

end of rant :p
Miles Baker
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:21 am, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

David, if it was a car club run by the Catholics, or Uniting Church or those people, I would almost be prepared to join. I went to school for 8 years at a school run by the Uniting Church. They were great. They lived and let live. Never hassled me about joining up, or believing their stuff. Never hassled the Muslim kids or the Hindus and so on.

But seriously people, understand who Pentecostals are and what the purpose of this car club invitation is all about. It is a recruitment drive plain and simple. These are the guys who stand on milk crates in the city at night and yell sh1t at you when you come out of a bar.

The first auto related section in their forum is about 9 sections down. What are most of the ones above it about?
Rob Rojo
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:28 am, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Miles Baker wrote on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:21 am:

These are the guys who stand on milk crates in the city at night and yell sh1t at you when you come out of a bar.




I thought they were bouncers!
Perry Morgan
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:36 am, by:  Perry Morgan (Uzz32) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No Rob. They are the people who ram your head THROUGH a milk crate to prevent you getting INTO the bar.
Rob Rojo
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:57 am, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you speaking from personal experience?
Perry Morgan
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 11:40 am, by:  Perry Morgan (Uzz32) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you seen my beautiful face? If you had, you'd know the answer was no
Rob Rojo
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 11:44 am, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peter Nitschke
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 11:49 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


David Henderson wrote on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:16 am:

Like knowing that because it's not business based, the track and dyno days would probably be cheaper


Meanwhile, back in the real world....

Since when are most religious organisations not a business? See the fancy buildings they own, the profits they make?

Most club based dyno days etc are done at cost, ie the club, forum, whatever, makes NOTHING as they want it to be as affordable as possible for more people to come along. The members themselves usually pitch in and bring eg sausages, and other BBQ delights, paid for out of their own pocket simply for their little community to share.

I myself organised a few fixit days, provided the place and facilities, other people brought along food, BBQ, tools, themselves to help people, and all of this was at NO COST to any participant.

It actually doesn't get any cheaper than that.

At these community type meets, there is absolutely no ulterior motive, beyond enjoying peoples company, and helping people get stuff done.
Simon Martin
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 11:57 am, by:  Simon Martin (Commander) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

haha. I love how you pigeonhole every christian and every pentecostal.

You've never actually been to a pentecostal church have you Miles. Just speaking out of your 'experience' of watching shows like a current affair and today tonight lol.

And people call us closed-minded?

Citipointe is the 3rd largest church in Australia. Yes you could put it in the pentecostal megachurch category, so what?

I'm part of a smaller, but very similar church. And if you read, I did state about my chaplaincy role in the other post, but clearly you're too busy crapping on about how right you are than to actually read the logical stuff that I have to say.

For the last frickin time. The site is mainly for other christians who would like to join, but anyone is welcome. If you don't like it DON'T JOIN.

How simple is this whole thing?

Yes I'm a pentecostal christian and the youth pastor and a worship leader at my church. I already said that. Bag me out all you want I don't really care, but the whole thing isn't about me, or the church for that matter, it was mainly for fellow brothers in Christ

You just don't get it.
Simon Martin
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 12:00 pm, by:  Simon Martin (Commander) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

btw the confidentiality part is called duty of care. If someone tells you they are going to kill themselves, do you just let them do it, knowing that they are going to do it, or do you try and help them?

If a kid came to you and say Dennis Ferguson raped me, would you keep it confidential or tell someone, because something needs to be done about it?

If it's going to bring harm or self harm to the person or another then by LAW it has to be passed on.
Rob Rojo
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 12:51 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it was a car club?
David Henderson
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 12:58 pm, by:  David Henderson (Hendo) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Point taken Peter. Thankyou to you and all the others that make SC a community rather than just a forum.

Miles, coming from a Uniting background myself, I know exactly what you're talking about. Some of my most revered role models are elders there and its the reason I have so much respect for the faith.

I understand that there are extremists from all walks of life (religious and secular) and having not much experience with pentecostals, I'd have to check it out first hand to make a judgment.

I reckon Simon has copped it a bit (though he doesn't seem bothered) and that some have taken the opportunity to grind their axes without much need to, has he done anything wrong?

There is another club from around my hometown called "Drift 4 Christ" that gets people off the street and into the workshop, an opportunity I wish I'd had when growing up! Yeah it's religiously affiliated, but good on them for getting people involved! It's a bonus in the country when there's often nothing else to do but get off your face and cause mischef!

(off topic) At present my Uncle has picked up a Govt. grant and is setting up a community garage in Armidale which will be open soonish which will be awesome. It's affiliated with a private school but will be open to everyone I believe.

So who's organising a fixit day in NSW next? that sounds awesome...
Miles Baker
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 02:45 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Simon you just don't get it.

We don't care who you were extending the invitation to, that you weren't forcing anyone blah blah blah.

Our point is you are advertising a religious recruitment drive on this forum and we don't think it should be here. We also think there is less than full disclosure that that is what it actually is too.

And yes, I have had experience with pentecostals. And yes, I have been to their churches and have experience with how they operate/recruit. These are people that have only sprung up in the last 30-100 years. They are IMHO the christian equivalent of scientology.

David, those sound good. I don't have a problem with them, as I don't have much of a problem with anything the first two branches of christianity do in the community service/events area. Pentecostals are just a whole new line of freaky.

"Pentecostalism is a renewal movement within Christianity that places special emphasis on a direct personal experience of God through the baptism in the Holy Spirit which is evidenced by speaking in tongues"

Some do snake handling, others do tongues, just about all believe in end times and rapture (and that they're coming shortly), all are wacky. And they are very aggressive in the way they recruit and handle their members. This is not normal christianity.
Perry Morgan
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 03:23 pm, by:  Perry Morgan (Uzz32) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miles you ole bundle of sicks
I'd not heard of this snake thing, so I looked it up on wiki.


"And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17-18)

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. (Luke 10:19)"



Dunno how many people would be that faithful that they'd stomp around in a barrel of brown snakes lol.

EDIT ****
Does not seem to have stopped some from trying though.


"Several of the leaders in these churches have been bitten numerous times, as indicated by their distorted extremities. For example, the founder of modern snake handling in the Appalachian Mountains died from snakebite in 1955. In 1998, snake-handling evangelist John Wayne "Punkin" Brown died after being bitten by a timber rattler at the Rock House Holiness Church in rural northeastern Alabama. Members of his family contend that his death was likely due to a heart attack. His wife had died three years earlier after a snake bite while in Kentucky. Another follower died in 2006 at a church in Kentucky."
Aaron Mead
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 03:45 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, in the end, Miles and David have silently concluded that Simon is not the 'church propaganda officer' of the said club, and that he is not intentionally pedalling his evangelistic or religious wares on SC.

I guess Miles has probably realised that he isnt in a place to decide that what Simon posted is 'advertising for religion ', because, having had two moderators present in the two threads at large, neither have seen fit to remove the link. Talk about not having a leg to stand on.



Does David understand that Simon should not have to 'come clean' about who he really is (a youth pastor in a church that is not affilliated with the club in question) if he wants to post a link to a CAR club. Even if it is a religious one, remembering that his sole intention is to inform other christians of a CAR club website?

I dont care about any evangelistic torture you two suffered, you arent moderators, you aren't Kevin Rudd and you aren't the Victorian Government. Sure you two atheists should be promoting free thinking, not trying to do it for us.

...and why David, should Simon have to be 'frank' about his 'position from the start' regarding anything he posts. All because he said he was a pastor? I guess since Miles has pedalled his idea for people to rent his Soda Blaster that he is now a commercial interest? You arent our resident superhero either, and Simon shouldnt have to state anything to justify his posting of a website. ESPECIALLY NOW THAT IT IS CLEAR, GODSPEED ISNT HIS SITE, OR PART OF HIS CHURCHES SITE.

....and again Miles, "This place is here to talk about Soarers and cars, not advertise for guys to attend thinly veiled recruitment drives for churches" <------- is it clear to you now/yet that Simon isnt advertising for a recruitment drive? Because it isnt his church in the website? Because it isnt his website? Because its pretty obvious to everyone else with active brain tissue that he has posted the link solely as a CAR related topic- what with the club being, well, car based.

Do you realise that although "The first auto related section in their forum is about 9 sections down...blah blah" that the top three threads are ...

1. Members Rides
2. Cruising Events
3. Cruising Events Pictures


Seriously, I understand your hatred of the wacky people, no one likes them, but to assume we are to dumb to see it coming says that you are somehow superior to the rest of us, including the site owner who is completely aware of the link, and hasn't removed it.

In this thread and the other, you have initiated a personal attack based on misinformation and your own imagination and assumptions, and its time to stop.

You also haven't shown us anything material about the supposed recruitment antics of godspeedcc.com.au

Havent you thrown enough stones at the suspect?
Miles Baker
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 03:48 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When the Jesus kiddies knock on my door I ask them how much they believe. Then I refer them to that passage and offer to get a bottle of metho. None have taken up the napisan challenge. Do not test god some say. That passage mentions nothing of god. It is purely saying go and do this if you believe. None have come up with a valid reason why they shouldn't. Most swear at me a lot.
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 04:01 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Find an atheist who has lost a child. For some reason they always say 'he/she is in heaven now.








Which is true, for all.
Boris Siljanoski
TryHard
Western Australia
Soarer GZ20 TT

Posts: 171
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 04:26 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What has Religion have to do with Cars?
Just call it a Car club and leave Religion out of it.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 05:11 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No they do not Aaron, you fool. They say 'he/she died'.

Most idiotic thing you've said yet. Well... maybe not but it's certainly up there.
Matt Sartori
TryHard
Western Australia
Rx7

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 05:59 pm, by:  Matt Sartori (Klutch) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Aaron Mead wrote on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 04:01 pm:

Find an atheist who has lost a child. For some reason they always say 'he/she is in heaven now.








Which is true, for all.



Contrary to popular belief. When people die they rot 6 feet under.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
Relaxed, but no provincial.
IS300

Posts: 4787
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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 06:46 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Aaron Mead wrote on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 04:01 pm:

Find an atheist who has lost a child. For some reason they always say 'he/she is in heaven now.


Oh, bullshit Aaron. Make up something vaguely credible.

For the rest of it, your reading comprehension needs serious work.

Aaron Mead wrote on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 03:45 pm:

Does David understand that Simon should not have to 'come clean' about who he really is (a youth pastor in a church that is not affilliated [sic] with the club in question) if he wants to post a link to a CAR club. Even if it is a religious one, remembering that his sole intention (my emphasis - D) is to inform other christians of a CAR club website


Rubbish. As already pointed out, I checked the links in my first post then asked about the commercial interest. It is you and Simon who have become most hot and sweaty, believing that christianity somehow excuses commercial interest or that merely to question a christian is to offend them (possibly true of course). Pen himself pointed out the commercial issue (and I make no other assumption about his position)

Peter Nitschke wrote on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 11:49 am:

Since when are most religious organisations not a business?


Simon, meanwhile, makes things up about my response. For the most part, I have tried to stay out of this thread. I asked my questions, Simon eventually gave his answer (and I was and remain concerned about the fact he was not frank in the first place) and the fact I confirmed my well known views on the flying spaghetti monster is routine.
Kadir Hussein
Tinkerer
Victoria/Western Australia
SC400 Limited

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 06:54 pm, by:  Kadir Hussein (Khuss888) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, but what is a "flying spaghetti monster"? This is not a loaded question, just curious.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
Relaxed, but no provincial.
IS300

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 06:57 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you read anything about god, Kadir, substitute "Flying Spaghetti Monster". It makes no difference at all to the logic of the statement. Look up "Russell's Teapot" on Wikipedia. Same thing.

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