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Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
SLK 230 Kompressor

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Monday, February 22, 2010 - 08:19 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Rob Rojo wrote on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 08:02 pm:

Your Forum your Rules.



Correct!


Rob Rojo wrote on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 08:02 pm:

Double Standards are not my thing.



I will be the first to admit Rob, that I have let some things slide when I shouldn't have.
And I'm sorry for that, as it DOES appear to be double standards on MY part.........That is NOT MY intent.


Rob Rojo wrote on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 08:02 pm:

Mods please cancel my membership to SC and emails going to my address.



Rob. it would be a great shame if you were to leave SC, as you have personally contributed a hell of a lot to this forum AND to individual members, especially with the brilliant group buys you have gone to the, sometimes, considerable trouble to organize.
I won't cancel your membership, but if you don't wish to post anymore, that's up to you, but I really hope you will remain an active forum member
Mel Morgan
TryHard
Qld
Soarer V8 UZZ32

Posts: 271
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Monday, February 22, 2010 - 08:24 pm, by:  Mel Morgan (Active8) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hahahahaha, I should check this forum out more often. I forgot how funny you guys can be. Specially you Don
Ben Kelly
DieHard
Lakemba
v8

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Monday, February 22, 2010 - 08:42 pm, by:  Ben Kelly (Ace) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So i can tell someone to 'f@#$ off and suck my balls' if i dont like them? Starting to look like an old boys club IMHO
Boris Siljanoski
TryHard
Western Australia
Soarer GZ20 TT

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Monday, February 22, 2010 - 09:18 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe the Off Topic section should be removed all together.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Monday, February 22, 2010 - 10:38 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ben Kelly wrote on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 08:42 pm:

So i can tell someone to 'f@#$ off and suck my balls' if i dont like them? Starting to look like an old boys club IMHO


I honestly believe that a comment like that reflects on the author more than anything, so sometimes it's appropriate to let it pass.

People have said similar or worse and it hasn't started World War 3.

When it just gets plain nasty, that is where I draw the line.

As was discussed recently, often Don and I will just sit back and allow the scene to play out. We are all adults, or at least old enough to be, and most can handle themselves in a debate.

A good debate can be both entertaining and a learning experience, both from the subject matter and how it's handled. As such, I don't mind debates developing, it's when the focus shifts too far from attacking the subject to attacking the person and sinking to the level of school yard mentality, then it has no real value here.

There have been a couple of issues that have turned sour in the last few weeks, those that followed them will probably understand what I say about how some of those posts reflected on the authors.

Soarer Central is a great example of an online community. Mostly it's helping others and asking for help, but it's also discussion about things that may interest some of us and occasionally arguments develop. It's probably not that different to a family dinner. :-)

Boris, if you find the Off-Topic section too heavy, you can un-select it from New Messages in your own personal profile and not be bothered by it again.

Rob, as Don said, I hope you reconsider, but policy won't change if you don't.

Don and I do the best we can with any given situation and circumstances. Someone is bound to not be happy if we actually step in, but that's always a problem. It's not a good reason for inactivity.

Ben, it's not an issue of personal favourites. I have never met Miles, nor do I correspond with him on a personal level. If you read his posts objectively, while he might be provocative, he is rarely just plain nasty, and if he is, then it reflects on him so.

Mel, good that we can count on you to post at the smell of blood!
Matthew Crawford
DieHard
Victoria
JZA80 Supra weapon!

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:00 pm, by:  Matthew Crawford (Doink) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please explain to me how abusing someone for being American is Racist?

Discrimination - yes, racism, no.
Mel Morgan
TryHard
Qld
Soarer V8 UZZ32

Posts: 272
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:08 pm, by:  Mel Morgan (Active8) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Peter, thats about all I am good for. Don't know much about cars. All I know about mine is that it's pretty and very awesome.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:38 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very true Mel, I have always loved your car too.
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
SLK 230 Kompressor

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 03:55 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Mel, how are ewe?. Haven't spoken for a while.

Glad I can amuse ewes
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 03:58 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Crawford wrote on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:00 pm:

Discrimination - yes, racism, no.



Variation on a theme Matthew. Essentially both are the same, but one sounds worser than the other.
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
GT Starlet

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 10:16 pm, by:  James Harris (Haro) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Surely i missed something.... Paul got banned for that previous (and rather tedious) keyboard battle?

I kinda want my few minutes of life back to be honest... Miles with his same ol same ol dribble. I really need to start filtering haha.

But i love you all long time anyways so please dont ban me also as i dont have enough friends in high places to reinstate me.
I can handle a suspension (been there done that hehe)

Mel Morgan
TryHard
Qld
Soarer V8 UZZ32

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 02:59 pm, by:  Mel Morgan (Active8) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Same old same old Baggs. Not too much changes in the Morgan household. Although we are heading to Thailand in March
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 04:39 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mel Morgan wrote on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 02:59 pm:

Although we are heading to Thailand in March



Noice!
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 11:44 am, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Matthew Crawford wrote on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:00 pm:

Please explain to me how abusing someone for being American is Racist?



How is it not? If I abused someone for being Asian or African would that not be racist? If I further used hateful and derogatory stereotypes against them, would you still say it wasn't racist? If I was to address a random Asian person with (and I never would) insults directed at, say, poor vision, bad driving, body odour, small penis size and something to do with their head and a zipper... would that not be racist?

So why does the same stuff directed at me not constitute racism?

My apologies for the stuff listed above but I needed to draw a similarity to what was posted at me. I do not use such language and intend no offence to any race. It was used for educational purposes only.

To Ben Kelly: when greeted with unprovoked hateful speech, yes I told him to f-off. People have been known to do that. What do you do?
I believe Peter and Don are trying to convey that this place does not require 100% puritanical perfect behaviour.. but some stuff is still not allowed. I stay within the rules, "Paul" did not. I don't see a double standard, just a different standard to the one you and Rob are imagining is in place.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 12:03 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haro,

Yes you did miss something. Looks like Paul has edited quite a few of his posts and removed the racist content that got him in trouble. Basically he abused me with every negative racist stereotype he could come up with. I complained about both that and the personal attack I got for having a differing opinion to his. I never attacked him, just posted that I don't like Lamborghinis. After he started the personal crap, told me what opinion I should have and told me to leave the forum, yes, I told him to f-off. Is that so bad? My usual dribble? My apologies.
Matthew Crawford
DieHard
Victoria
JZA80 Supra weapon!

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 03:27 pm, by:  Matthew Crawford (Doink) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Miles Baker wrote on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 11:44 am:




It is your country of origin, not your race.

If you were NATIVE American and people were abusing you for it, you might have cause to whine.

If you were AFRICAN American and people were abusing you for being black then you would have cause to whine.

Get off of your high horse.

Of course there is a difference - you're clutching at straws.

And by the way, i'm a Pom living in australia and i'm white.

People call me a Pom, and all the standard jibes etc and it doesnt offend me.
if they called me a cracker or a honkey - that would offend me.


Grow a backbone for goodness sake, you're acting like a 12 year old girl
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
GT Starlet

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 05:49 pm, by:  James Harris (Haro) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Miles Baker wrote on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 12:03 pm:

Haro,

Yes you did miss something. Looks like Paul has edited quite a few of his posts




ahh i see (or dont see i spose) Everyone knows you love an internet debate Miles (hence the dribble comment) but dont worry i could sprout off a couple of your mates who do the same hahah.


Matthew Crawford wrote on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 03:27 pm:

It is your country of origin, not your race.




Although i missed it.. i tend to agree. If he was just "Taking the piss" outta the US of A and its people which is what us AUSSIES do best i think you need to relax a little.

Why are soo many Seppos so uptight ?
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 09:31 pm, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James,
Probably because I cop it a lot. A lot of people in this country think it is fair game to really abuse me for where I am from. I have all kinds of derogatory stuff told to me about the country I was born in. Constantly. Mostly by people claiming to know why I and my countrymen are inferior and what we are like, by people who have never been there. I am constantly told we are stupid, poorly educated, all of the usual crap about how we like to just shoot or blow everything and everyone up. I'm constantly told we're all fat and lazy (by people fatter than me) even when some of the stats now show Australia has overtaken the US in the obesity stakes. I get told we're all dangerous drive-by-shooting violent freaks. I get told we're stupid and believe everything we see on TV... which is a stereotype that people here believe from seeing it on TV. I get the "inbred" crap non stop and stories about the Top Gear guys getting attacked for painting whatever it was on their cars.

Some of it is in good humour, but much of it is not. When I drive my cars in public I am quite regularly either yelled at, or engaged in conversation shortly followed by the abuse above when this person decides I am Australian because my accent is very subtle.

Trust me, I understand the difference between taking the piss and just plain abuse. My friends take the piss constantly. I have no problem with it, I have a decent sense of humour. There is a fine line between when someone may think they are just joking and when they go too far. The line can really only judged by the person receiving. I am not uptight, I am just sick of copping abuse for my heritage and then being told I have no right to be offended. When I get stuff like this, I am offended:


quote:

you seem to be the quintessential perfect American asshole.

maybe go back to the good Ol' U.S of A', sounds like your from the south ??? A redneck perhaps , a gun totting , tobacci chewing , good ole boy.




There was more but I forgot to save it and he got rid of it.
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

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Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 10:30 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you not like when things get personal Miles?:

"He's a big fat slob with nothing else in his life."

"Jesus H Easter Bunny, lard arse. Let it go. What the hell kind of idiot point are you trying to prove, and to whom? Yourself? Baby Jesus? Your second, third or fourth chins?"


"Oh well, I guess she figured if she has to have a clammy fat pile of blubber slobbering and humping away at her, she may as well let herself go too. Or have you knocked her up and there's going to be another little obese kid running around soon? Or can't you really tell which it is?"


Seriously, if you can dish it out, you should be able to take it.

Everyone knows asians can't drive. Even they do. I just asked my missus and she said so.

The whole world thinks Americans are assholes, and the Irish are stupid.

Maybe its time for a coupla teaspoons of cement to harden the f*ck up.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

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Friday, February 26, 2010 - 07:30 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can't speak for most of the US, but the East Coasters and West Coasters I met over there were all great. Very different culture from LA to New York though. The Westies seemed to be relaxed and funny, the Easties seemed to be professional and courteous.

I think George W Bush did more to damage America's international image than any one man has a right to.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

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Friday, February 26, 2010 - 07:44 am, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Personal is fine Aaron. You and I do personal all the time and I have no problem. You should well know what I do have a problem with though. Racism, sexism, and your favourite. Homophobic vilification. Tease me for the decisions I make not things I can't change. That's the difference between criticism and hate speech. You could diet. The color of skin, gender, sexuality etc cannot be changed. Abusing people for those is what society has decided it does not approve of. Some people have trouble understanding the difference between discriminatory vilification and just plain old personal ribbing.
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
GT Starlet

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Friday, February 26, 2010 - 07:24 pm, by:  James Harris (Haro) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OOOhh dare i be soo cheeky (again taking the piss mate so please dont dob on me)
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

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Friday, February 26, 2010 - 09:49 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah thanks John Laws.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

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Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 09:27 am, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you saying if I don't like racist people I should leave Haro?

;-)
Peter Burrett
DieHard
ACT
'97 2.5 VVTi ST, '04 IS200, '94 3 ltr Soarer

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Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 01:15 pm, by:  Peter Burrett (Burrett) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Baggs, not wanting to start a fight, but to say that discrimination and racism are somehow bedfellows (oops, sexist) is far from correct.

Discrimination is the process of selection on the basis of some set of criteria known to the discriminator, but not necessarily to others. Thus when choosing a car, I exercised discrimination to arrive at my choice of a Soarer. No adverse effects for other types of car as far as I can see.

Racism (IMHO) is an adverse treatment of an individual (or more than one, e.g. a nation) based SOLELY on their perceived (often wrongly) racial origin.

Perhaps announcing that I wouldn't buy a German car because of WWII might be iffy. (This despite the fact that many "German" cars are built in other countries).

Now is racism a form of discrimination, perhaps semantically, yes, but is discrimination a form of racism, emphatically NO..... EOR (End of Rant)
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
SLK 230 Kompressor

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Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 04:39 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peter you are right, and I was wrong

The way you explain it makes perfect sense to me.

Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
325i Coupe

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Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 05:21 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow.

What did I miss.

Peter Burrett
DieHard
ACT
'97 2.5 VVTi ST, '04 IS200, '94 3 ltr Soarer

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Monday, March 01, 2010 - 10:12 am, by:  Peter Burrett (Burrett) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing, Mike....you saw Don being the perfect gentleman he is, again....Peter
Don Bagnall
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Monday, March 01, 2010 - 03:12 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paul Knox
TryHard
QLD
uzz31 manual

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Friday, March 05, 2010 - 10:53 pm, by:  Paul Knox (Surreal) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to add to all of this.

firstly Miles I owe you a big apology.

I really regret the remarks I made towards you, and in all honesty I was not trying to be Racist, if that makes sense, I was only trying to be rude and insulting, and your bias towards american cars led me to those remarks.
This is no excuse and doesn't condone my words.

Secondly , don't put any more words in my mouth Miles , i only edited one line from the end of a post , "daring you to Have the last word"
that is all.
My remarks that are/were in question , are still ther for everyone to see, there were no further remarks !!!!
So again not trying to argue or fight , but only put the truth out there.

Thirdly , My only point in all of this was that a Statement can be "arrogant and Stupid"
I and I dare say 99.9% of forum members would not take a $350,000 loss on the sale of a car , no matter how strongly i disliked that car.
A lambo may not be your choice - granted , but they are an admired piece of Italian motoring & a true supercar in every sense of the word.

To be given one , would be a amazing.
To sell it for next it nothing , would be ......... ?

You argued this point vermently , which added to my frustration , hence the outburst to frustrate you in return.

I do see how ugly & spiteful my post was, and if it upset you , I do sincerely apoligize.
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer TT

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Friday, March 05, 2010 - 11:07 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now its your turn Miles to apologise to all the people that you have offended in SC.

Like that is going to happen, you just make up ways to justify your comments as you see fit.
Miles Baker
Goo Roo
Vic
66 Mustang GT Convertible, 55 Chevy Bel Air, 69 Firebird 455, 69 Nova SS Clone, 65 Mustang Fastback, 67 Mustang Convertible, 67 Camaro RS/SS

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 12:00 am, by:  Miles Baker (Milesb) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not interested in arguing about Lamborghinis with you Paul. I believe you were also asked to leave the board as you admitted you are under a fake name or have been kicked off before? Not really interested in your half strength apology with justification of how I "led you" to being racist. Yeah. My fault. I never brought up American cars in this thread. You did.

Rob. I will apologise if I ever happen to do anything that contravenes the rules of this forum. If fat people are offended by my stance that being fat is unhealthy and not to be promoted, then that is unfortunate for them. Although I am blunt about it, I stand by my belief that the media promoting obesity is wrong. If my bluntness offends, people are welcome to not read my posts or object as they see fit. But until I break rules, I do not apologise for people taking offence at my opinion. One only apologises when one has broken a rule. Asking a person to apologise when someone else takes offence otherwise, is what people term political correctness gone mad. If that is "making up ways to justify my comments" then I hope you giggle extra hard and sleep well tonight.

And Rob I thought you were gone from SC forever? Yet here you are a mere 14 minutes after "Paul" makes a post. Interesting.
Paul Knox
TryHard
QLD
uzz31 manual

Posts: 124
Reg: 08-2009

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 01:09 am, by:  Paul Knox (Surreal) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thankyou Peter for the chance to apoligize , hardly seems worth it now.

Peter knows the truth , I am not here under a false name, and have never been banned (before)

You also forgot to retract your statement about me editing further posts and statements ???

My apoligy stills stands , even if you don't accept it.
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 3659
Reg: 02-2010

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 08:18 am, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miles,
I did actually leave SC for a brief period but after discussing with some old and new members here it is clear that not everyone has such a poor attitude which was a releif and as I do actually make a worthwhile contribution here and do get a lot of information here so it would be a shame to leave.

Lamborghinis are now even cooler to me than before.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11432
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 12:01 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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