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Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 868 Reg: 12-2007
| I've been wanting to do this for a while, and I now believe it is time. You're all probably going to hate me for it, but that's something I can deal with. In my profession (I am a year away from being an English teacher), we win a few and lose a lot. We're used to it. This has precipitated from almost four years of reading this forum and groaning when I see poor old grammar being used incorrectly. The best part is this: if you're one of the perpetrators, it's actually NOT YOUR FAULT! It all stems from how crap your teachers were, and one of the many ways that the modern education system has failed you. By the title of the thread, it may well be axiomatic that you may learn something about proper and correct use of English grammar if you read what I've got to say. Many people are completely apathetic when it comes to the use of English grammar, but here's my turn to say... I don't care! If you don't want to learn stuff, don't read, and keep your moronic comments to yourself. If you have questions, ask away. And remember - I don't answer intellectual questions; dumb questions are the best kind. |
Joshua Baldwin
Goo Roo victoria 1990 ucf11 c+f celsior. 1991 uzz31 toyota soarer 2003 vy sv8 ute
Posts: 1600 Reg: 10-2009
| whats axiomatic mean??? |
Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 869 Reg: 12-2007
| Lesson One: THE GOD-DAMN APOSTROPHE The apostrophe is one of the most misunderstood and misused components of English grammar. It is often referred to as a form of punctuation, but technically it is not. Our friend the apostrophe (just to clarify, is this little sucker here '), is displayed as an indicator of possession or to denote a contraction, NEVER to indicate a plural. It is simply not necessary to denote a plural; they mean more than one simply by definition. There is NO exception to this rule, however exceptions exist in the case of contractions. Examples: The girls like spaghetti. This statement, or clause, refers to more than one girl demonstrating a preference for eating spaghetti. No biggie. Notice the absence of an apostrophe? That's right - it doesn't need one. We know there is a plural there, and you don't need to signal it. If you change the sentence to "the girl's like spaghetti", you change the meaning. You're using our mate the apostrophe to denote a contraction; that is, a compound of two words pronounced as one. In this statement, you are saying that the girl (singular) displays qualities that are of similarity to spaghetti. Unless you actually mean to do it, you cocked up. Glen's liking for rambling about grammar. - This statement says I possess a liking for banging on about grammar. True that. Correct use of the apostrophe! Now... let us get on to the exception of the rule for contractions. "It's" and "its" mean two things. But the distinction is simple: don't put an apostrophe in "its" unless you mean "it is". Easy. Examples: It's a nice day today. (It is a nice day today) That piece of crap car is on its last legs. (Notice the absence of an apostrophe. To avoid confusion, the rule of the possessive for 'its' has been refuted, and the apostrophe is only used to denote a contraction). So there you have it. Apostrophes are wonderful things; they tell us who is saying or doing what, who owns what, and better yet, save us from making embarrassing mistakes on job application letters and resumes. Next time, we'll take a look at the possessive plural form, and the role of the apostrophe when you're writing about more than one person or object. |
Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 870 Reg: 12-2007
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Joshua Baldwin wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 09:42 pm:whats axiomatic mean?
Self-evident, obvious. I'll let you off on the absence of the apostrophe in "what's" just this once! |
Orton Marchant
TryHard NSW Blacktown JZZ31
Posts: 143 Reg: 01-2011
| Lesson 2? |
Dan McColl
Goo Roo Victoria (The Nazi State) Pretty Red Thing and The Black Beast
Posts: 3076 Reg: 07-2005
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Joshua Baldwin wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 09:42 pm:whats axiomatic mean???
http://tinyurl.com/3kgb8wl |
Matt Sartori
Goo Roo Western Australia Rx7
Posts: 1052 Reg: 08-2008
| writing is a art. |
Hakan Pasha
TryHard Victoria JZZ30
Posts: 445 Reg: 05-2008
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Glen Muller wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 09:31 pm:if you're one of the perpetrators, it's actually NOT YOUR FAULT! It all stems from how crap your teachers were, and one of the many ways that the modern education system has failed you.
Is that what they are teaching at uni to 'aspiring' teachers these days? |
James Johnson
TryHard Auckland UZZ31 Soarer x2
Posts: 482 Reg: 03-2009
| Thank you Glen. Glad I'm not the only one here who has noticed this. Yet back in the day people were getting their accounts suspended for bad grammar and spelling etc. |
James Johnson
TryHard Auckland UZZ31 Soarer x2
Posts: 483 Reg: 03-2009
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Matt Sartori wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 11:47 pm:writing is a art.
Correct me if I am wrong here Glen but this should be: Writing (notice the capital W) is an (An instead of A) art. |
Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 871 Reg: 12-2007
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Hakan Pasha wrote on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 12:32 am:Is that what they are teaching at uni to 'aspiring' teachers these days?
Hell no, they think their methods are the bee's knees and that their poo doesn't stink. Personally I am not a fan of the way things are done, and that the education system needs a lot of work to make it better. I would like to see tertiary entrance scores raised; letting morons run riot with innocent children with minds like sponges is probably a good place to start. Some Universities will let you into a teaching degree on a low 50s range score, which is appalling. That's merely my personal belief. I could go on for a while about it, but I won't. I don't have time today! * By the way, I like your sarcastic emphasis on the "aspiring teachers" part. Amusement. James: that is correct. "An" is used where the next letter begins with a vowel, unless the vowel makes a "hard" sound, such as "u" can in certain cases. "A uniform" is a good example here; you don't say "an uniform". The sentence should always begin with a capital letter, as well as any names or the singular personal pronoun "I". You also used the colon correctly! I'll be getting to those soon. |
Ryan McDonough
DieHard NSW STOCK JZZ30 TT
Posts: 726 Reg: 07-2005
| Glen, they are never going to raise the entry level for teachers. The lack of pay is the main reason. When was the last time you saw a uni turn down applications for teaching? |
Michael Sinay
TryHard NSW TT
Posts: 203 Reg: 07-2005
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Matt Sartori wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 11:47 pm:writing is a art.
Bahahaha, classic! |
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo North Island JZZ31
Posts: 6493 Reg: 10-2005
| I've not met anyone under 20 who cares a bit about using correct grammar, punctuation, spelling or capitalisation - regardless of their metal ability. I have no idea why but can only assume it is the education system as Glen theorises. Having said that, I do a lot of writing as part of my job - and I'm very aware how poor my grammar skills are, also how lost I would be without a spell checker (which I do at least bother to use!) |
Michael Sinay
TryHard NSW TT
Posts: 204 Reg: 07-2005
| I'm pretty sure this has arisen since texting and the internet have become mainstream and people prefer saving typing time by using slang and abbreviations etc rather than proper punctuation. And I guess you can't blame people for this, I personally am pretty proud of my grammar skills and think I was taught well, but when it comes to texting and typing on the net I'm the first to use short form as long as it's still clearly legible. For me apostrophes and capital letters are the first to be thrown out the window in these instances. ill instead of I'll is probably my favourite , but at least I'm aware of what i'm doing, kids who grow up surrounded by this incorrect grammar daily must find it hard adjusting and learning the correct way I'd assume... |
Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 872 Reg: 12-2007
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Ryan McDonough wrote on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 08:22 am:Glen, they are never going to raise the entry level for teachers. The lack of pay is the main reason.
Yup, that's where it all went to hell. I know that stuff all will be done about it, and that's the reality. The trade off? Great holidays!
Michael Sinay wrote on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 12:56 pm: at least I'm aware of what i'm doing
It's all fine as long as you're making that decision to do so. That's the clincher: know what you're doing, don't think what you're doing. |
Sean Routledge
DieHard Victoria V8 Limited
Posts: 852 Reg: 07-2008
| Thank you Glen. You've posted everything that I couldn't be posting. |
Matt Sartori
Goo Roo Western Australia Rx7
Posts: 1053 Reg: 08-2008
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James Johnson wrote on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 12:50 am:Correct me if I am wrong here Glen but this should be: Writing (notice the capital W) is an (An instead of A) art.
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Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 873 Reg: 12-2007
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Sean Routledge wrote on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 08:09 pm:You've posted everything that I couldn't be •••••• posting.
But wait, there's more! I'll put lesson two up soon. |
Sean Routledge
DieHard Victoria V8 Limited
Posts: 855 Reg: 07-2008
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Ian Johnston
Goo Roo South Australia UZZ30 GT 4.0, BA XR6Turbo Ute. 2007 VE GTS.
Posts: 1434 Reg: 07-2005
| Not another forum full of effing teachers!! Keep it in the classroom. |
Ian Johnston
Goo Roo South Australia UZZ30 GT 4.0, BA XR6Turbo Ute. 2007 VE GTS.
Posts: 1435 Reg: 07-2005
| By the way, you any relation of Peter Muller? Works, or did, for Scott Petroleum. |
Mike Beck
Goo Roo New Zealand BMW E36 Coupe 1UZFE V8 340i
Posts: 5416 Reg: 11-2005
| What a great thread, I like the point about using it's and its - I had never really bothered to think about it recently.
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Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 877 Reg: 12-2007
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Ian Johnston wrote on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 11:01 am:Keep it in the classroom.
Never! Education is ubiquitous; it follows you everywhere. |
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer South Australia UZZ30 UZZ31
Posts: 12223 Reg: 11-2004
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James Johnson wrote on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 12:47 am:Thank you Glen. Glad I'm not the only one here who has noticed this. Yet back in the day people were getting their accounts suspended for bad grammar and spelling etc.
It still happens occasionally for the worst offenders. |
Warren Moore
Goo Roo Victoria JZA80 Supra
Posts: 1336 Reg: 01-2010
| tl;dr |
Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 878 Reg: 12-2007
| Possessive plurals coming on the weekend! Stay tuned! If you're lucky, I may even get excited about which between "should have" and "should of" is correct, and why it's impossible to preheat an oven and preorder an XBOX 360 game! |
Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 879 Reg: 12-2007
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Ian Johnston wrote on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 11:04 am:By the way, you any relation of Peter Muller?
No mate, there are only a handful of us around. My grandfather was the only male Muller to come to Australia after WWII, and my old man is the only son of three children. There are 4 Muller males left from my extended family in Australia, and the name looks likely to die off in my generation. My other half and I don't intend to breed; my younger brother still acts like a bloody teenager and Jesus help any child he happens to spawn; and my little brother has three daughters! Now that I've given you all half of my family's history, I bet you're all totally fascinated. |
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer South Australia UZZ30 UZZ31
Posts: 12226 Reg: 11-2004
| I am mulling it over... |
James Johnson
TryHard Auckland UZZ31 Soarer x2
Posts: 485 Reg: 03-2009
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Peter Nitschke wrote on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 09:11 pm:I am mulling it over...
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Mike Bradberry
Goo Roo NSW 540i Sport
Posts: 2221 Reg: 07-2005
| im glad i got good teechers. im not wurreed bowt stoopid stuf like this |
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo Western NSW 3.0GT G-Pack
Posts: 1631 Reg: 07-2005
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Glen Muller wrote on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 09:31 pm:I've been wanting to do this for a while, and I now believe it is time. You're all probably going to hate me for it, but that's something I can deal with. In my profession (I am a year away from being an English teacher), we win a few and lose a lot. We're used to it
I share your (there's another one that's often stuffed up- you and you're) dismay at the level of English expression prevalent even amongst university level students. I'm an old bugger: when I was in primary school, let alone high school, we had difficult parsing to do and that's set me up for life. I haven't studied English literature since high school, but have done a bit of Linguistics, history of English language etc. One thing I've noticed is that non-English native speakers often write better English than native -speakers. I think their manner of learning is different, "tougher" if you will, than in English-speaking countries, especially the US, which country, unfortunately (from the point of view of English standards) dominates the internet. |
Glen Muller
DieHard Victoria Soarer - 'Z31 V8
Posts: 887 Reg: 12-2007
| A lot of the time they have to learn our rules of grammar from scratch, so they learn it correctly from the beginning. Even if you haven't done parsing since you were in school, your command of the rules of grammar is still sound! |
Mike Triggs
Goo Roo Western NSW 3.0GT G-Pack
Posts: 1632 Reg: 07-2005
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Glen Muller wrote on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 07:14 am:Personally I am not a fan of the way things are done, and that the education system needs a lot of work to make it better. I would like to see tertiary entrance scores raised;
Interesting, with the equivalent of almost two degrees under my belt, and having left school at 15 (so- mature entry), I can't entirely agree that Year 12 scores are everything. Many students go for courses that will make the most money after graduation, not the most useful to society or the more interesting fields. The courses with high entry scores are often those which will be the big money-spinners. |
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo North Island JZZ31
Posts: 6500 Reg: 10-2005
| That was my plan - I'm not too bright, so I figured to go for something I had some natural talent for, and that would stand me a chance of earning good money and not drive me totally insane. Thus I studied business computing and became a software developer - managed to get into a bit of a niche market so do OK at it despite my decidedly average brain. I am fortunately (apparently unlike a huge portion of the human population) interested in almost everything, so while I have no education in fields such as English lit beyond what I received before completing secondary - I do read a lot about all sorts of things. Unfortunately going back to my very average brain, not a lot of it is retained for long. Oh well - now I can't even remember what my point was. |