Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 02:06 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
I am looking to lower my suspension an inch or so but want to retain some sort of ride quality. My plan is to do the VFT bush thing and lower the suspension all at the same time. I have been reading the Supraforums and the threads in this topic for a while now and have been using the search function.
The general consensus seems to be that Coilovers are often very harsh and in everyday real world situations may not offer the best ride/handling compromise.
The Supra guys rave about their factory Bilsteins and cruel anyone for ditching them. I am wondering if a set of these supra bilstein struts with lowered springs would be a feasible way to go?
If not has anyone got a better idea?
Also, if coilovers end up being the solution, what would be the suggested spring rate? I have read other threads which suggest 12kg/7kg is about right. Has anybody who has lived with their coilovers for a while got a comment on their spring rates?
Ben Socratous Goo Roo SA I am the fibreglass/kevlar/carbonfibre king!
Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 09:55 pm, by: Ben Socratous(Socrates)
Bilsteins are great! I would have bought them if I didn't already have the KYB's lying about. Bilstein coilovers are also absolutely sensational, WAAAAAAAY better than any Tein equiped car that I have been in, both in handling and ride quality IMHO.
Monday, November 27, 2006 - 07:39 am, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
OEM Bilsteins are always good. Aftermarket not so if not valved correctly for the car. The Supra is close enough to the Soarer for the OEM Bilsteins to be just about right. I'd go for them.
Monday, November 27, 2006 - 08:05 am, by: Simon Jackson(Sc400)
I have aftermarket Bilstein coilovers and some unknown red springs and it handles great, it made my soarer feel like a lighter and nimbler car when it came to tight twisty roads.
Monday, November 27, 2006 - 06:39 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Just as I thought. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
Now I just have to find all the bits at the right price. I assume the OEM Bilsteins are only found on left handed swahili domestic production models only? Might be time to hit the wreckers.
Sam- was the ride height of the supra struts similar to the stock Soarer height, or would I be better off finding lower springs off the bat?
Monday, November 27, 2006 - 07:07 pm, by: Rainer Fritzsche(Ryner)
I've got a full set, if you're interested Ben (Bilstein shocks and matched TRD springs). Ride height is low (just legal at a guess) and they're quite firm, though they won't shake your teeth out like some coil-over eqipped cars can. Handling is awesome compared to the standard setup. Here's some shots of my car with them in. Only had them in for a couple of weeks. - Took them out after constant b*tching from the missus about scraping over speed humps and the firm ride. - Let me know if you want shots of the struts and I'll un-box them and photograph them for you.
Monday, November 27, 2006 - 09:10 pm, by: Kim Nguyen(Kim)
How much were you looking at for the gear Rainer? Been thinking about getting new coils and keeping stock struts, but not sure how the ride would go. But thanks to Ben, I can just read this thread
Monday, November 27, 2006 - 09:22 pm, by: Rainer Fritzsche(Ryner)
They're 16 x 7" mags with standard size tyres, Ben. I bought the struts from a guy with a Supra, but I don't know for sure whether they are the factory fitted units, or a TRD offered set (suspect maybe the latter, as they are very low). Re larger tyre sizes, it depends on your offset. I'm running 275/30/19 on the back now on a set of Volk rims (+50 offset) and they have never ever rubbed, even when on the bump stops.
I opted for a set of Selby lowered springs (same as King Springs) with the standard struts. This is what I'd recommend for you if you've got to accomodate the family and keep the missus happy, especially as you're on low profile rubber already. My profile pic is with the Selby's, though it's hard to see the ride height.
Monday, November 27, 2006 - 11:34 pm, by: Phil Gibson(Sciflyer)
Ben the *springs* determine the ride height, not the shocks
Rainers' car is low because he had TRD springs in it, all you need is a spring compressor and you can use the springs you have now, thus the ride height will be unchanged.
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 04:53 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Nah, cheers Phil.
I know the springs control the ride height, mine is too high, his is too low for my needs. Rainer stated he is getting rid of it because the height was not suitable for his missus.
I am really struggling with conflicting wants and needs. I guess I need to go for a ride in some coilover equipped cars to see if I could live with the ride quality.
I think if I spend $500-$800 on replacement springs and/or struts then decide I don't like it I will regret not buying the coilovers when I had the money. (finally sold the Rx-7)
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 08:42 pm, by: Rainer Fritzsche(Ryner)
Ben Lipman wrote on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 09:52 pm:
So you find the Selby's a good compromise between ride and handling? Do you know how much lower than stock they are?
For example Tein S tech are 45/31mm lower front/rear. I think this is roughly as low as I want to go. No further than that anyway!
For me, the Selby's are spot on Ben. Yes the bilsteins made the car handle much better, but they were too firm for me, my car being a daily driver. Ride height is fine with the Selbys......at a guess, I recon they're 40mm lower or thereabouts. King springs come from the exact same factory by the way.
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:42 am, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
I've always found that Bilsteins are a little hard. They are very suited to torsion bar type suspension (VW etc) as they will still allow the suspension to move which is critical with 'bar suspension. Old worn springs work well with Bilsteins on Nissans and others. The worn springs give enough lowering and help compensate for the relatively hard shock. This is where you need to look. Spring height is not enough, you need the right stiffness to suit the car/shock combo and this is not always harder than stock, depending on application of course.
I'd be looking at factory specs for all the different models. Maybe one has softer springs for a lighter car (V8 Pov-pack perhaps) that will give you a bit lower ride and won't cost much to get 2nd hand. Spring height is easy to adjust yourself too. Just use ordinary sring compressors to get them at the right height and stick 'em in a very hot oven for a while. You can lower a set of springs quite easily this way and so can get softer factory spring rates with the ride height you want. It would be better to use a jig that compressed the spring from the ends rather than the ordinary spring compressor that grabs the coils but that should be easy enough to arrange. This method can only be used for relatively small adjustments (inch or two) as the spring will bind if taken too far. It is very good for springs that are getting old and sagging on one side if you can get away with a reduced ride height.
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 03:36 pm, by: Avin Luther(Lex_luther)
I Have bilsteins froma Supra in my car and lowered springs. It is too low at teh moment. have to change springs to something a bit higher. The car feels great though. i have much more confidene in it than i did with old airbags.
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 03:45 pm, by: Kim Nguyen(Kim)
People keep telling me I should put new shockies in instead of getting a set of struts from the wreckers =( (Thats what the wrecker said to me) "You should go new for shockies"
off to pedders for me to find out prices for new shocks.
Also Ben, Brockas has kept his old struts and just put in new TEIN springs into his car and he reckons it handles great.
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 04:29 pm, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
I would tend to agree with that. It does depend a bit on what exactly the 2nd hand struts came off and why.
Having said that I just stuck some very grotty looking $20 (pair) 3rd hand (at least!) struts on a POS Camry that I somehow got lumbered with, on the basis that anything at all had to be better than what came off it....and they are; heaps
Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 12:29 pm, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
A lot of the Bilsteins, Konis, Tein etc are rebuildable shocks too so buying them 2nd hand is NOT a bad idea at all. Just check with dealers or manufacturers first to find out just how rebuildable they are and what sort of wear or damage can prevent this from happening like it should. And cost of course.
Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 04:59 pm, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
There is some decent info in this thread now. I hope it continues to keep coming.
I think at this stage I will go to Pedders in the new year and get a suspension safety check to see what bushes they recommend changing. Establish where I stand now and work back from there(out of the money set aside). If there is enough left to buy Tein/HSD/King springs/bilstein I will get what I can afford. In the meantime I will keep an eye out for good bargains as usual.
And before the sermon starts I will be getting VFT bushes to replace whatever needs doing!
Oh and for the record HSD recommend 12Kg front and 6kg rear spring rates for the soarer. This incidentally is what a lot of the expensive Jap street(read: soft by their standards) spec coilovers run(HKS etc).
Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 10:34 pm, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
I personally think that most aftermarket setups have the shocks valved too hard for the springs. Fine on the track but not for daily driving. I much prefer a softer spring with, for example, Bilsteins a over what they would normally provide for a given car, even with occasional track style stuff. With adjustable spring height Bilsteins (coilovers) on a 260z, which were in fact a factory option along with springs better suited to a Patrol, I went back to standard soft 260 springs and got about 1.5 sec a lap better times at the old Lakeside track. Of course this would not have been possible without the height adjustment. The same car driven by the then Touring Car champion was 4 seconds faster than any time I ever did regardless of which springs he had on it. Some pricks can drive anything!
And it was my car that he had never driven before except for the previous two laps....arsehole!
Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 02:54 pm, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
If the struts in my pov-pack TT are the originals and I think they are then I won't ever think of going to anything else. Change springs maybe to lower it a bit. It has TEMS struts that look original and I can't find any spanner marks to say they've been changed at any time. They look like crap but there are no leaks and the four shocks are still rock hard and the TEMS works perfectly. If they are original and I think they are then they have done somewhere between the 160,000km the odo admits to and about 250,000km I reckon. And they are still as good or better that those in a certain 98 model which is a low mileage car. The later TEMS are different though and the later is switchable for hardness so that is not a straight comparison. It does mean that my TEMS struts are still good though and even if they are the second set in the car that must make them among the best shocks ever built by anyone. That is a phenomenal performance for any shock. If I ever replace them it will be for NEW TEMS struts.
Previous
