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Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 441
Reg: 08-2006

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 10:26 am, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys, I am in the process of purchasing a Torsen Diff for the V8, however before doing so, I decided to conduct the standard Torsen test

1. With the car jacked up, handbrake down and in neutral, I spun the drivers side wheel clockwise and the passenger side spun anti clockwise, and vice versa when I spun the passenger wheel......Possibly indicating that its not a Torsen diff

2. I then started the car, put it in drive and watched as both the wheels started turning. After reaching a steady speed, I stopped the drivers side wheel only to find that the passenger wheel started to spin much faster .Then when I went onto the passenger wheel to stop, the drivers side picked up inertia very quickly and started spinning at the same rate that the passenger wheel was spinning, when the drivers side was halted.

3. I also found that when the car was jacked up, switched OFF, handbrake down and in neutral, when I manually tried to turn the drive shaft with my hands, I saw that both the wheels were turning in the SAME direction :-)

I gather from this that I do have a Torsen diff as an option installed, however, I need somebody elses opinion who knows about Torsen's and what not to confrm that I do have a Torsen, or I dont have a Torsen.

Reason for the thread is, on the compliance plate, it shows A01A (yet I seem to have a Torsen diff) and also writes E-UZZ31-ACPZK (when it should be ACPZK(X) given that I also have an EMV).....And the reason why IM so bloddy confused :-)

If anyone can give me an insight into what the hell is going on with my car, I would be very grateful :-)
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 9336
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 11:31 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ali, I don't see anything there that would make me think it is a torsen.

Probably the best test would be to have one wheel on eg wet grass, the other on bitumen and then see if it spins or not.

Torsens require some backloading to work, so spinning in free air doesn't mean much, nor does the test 3, as open diffs do that too.
Brett Jones
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 104
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 12:04 pm, by:  Brett Jones (Brett_jones) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It should be pretty obvious when driving if you have a torsen diff. I know with my torsen when I turn a tight right hand turn from a standstill the right rear wheel will skip and chirp trying to keep up with the left rear wheel
Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 442
Reg: 08-2006

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 01:56 pm, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmmmm....thats bizarre cause all three tests are the same one's I obtained from Planet Soarer, under the "changing the diff torsen...." section

According to that, when the car is in the air and both wheels are spinning, if you stop one wheel and the other wheel gains MORE inertia than when initially spinning with the other wheel, that should mean that it has Torque Sensing built in therefore TORSEN diff :-)

But I suppose one wheel on grass and the other on bitumen would probably be the best test to do I suppose :-)


Brett Jones wrote on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 12:04 pm:

It should be pretty obvious when driving if you have a torsen diff. I know with my torsen when I turn a tight right hand turn from a standstill the right rear wheel will skip and chirp trying to keep up with the left rear wheel





As for this, I think it used to that when i had 235's on the back but when i changed to 255's its now different. I mean the car still goes sideways but only sometimes....I think I have to do the one wheel on wet grass and the other on bitumen test to find out....

And just to make sure....Peter...the car is supposed to launch straight away if one wheel is on bitumen and the other is on grass, given the wheel on bitumen has full grip yes??? Its not supposed to lag is it?
Brett Jones
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 105
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 02:02 pm, by:  Brett Jones (Brett_jones) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If its a torsen, the wheel on the grass will not spin unless the wheel on the bitumen is spinning. If its a single legger the wheel on the grass will spin. Just to throw something else into the equation, before my open center diff shat itself it was acting like a LSD. I have herd this from other members as well.
Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 443
Reg: 08-2006

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 02:07 pm, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ohhhhhhh...thats not good :-( now your getting me paranoid lol
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 9341
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 02:16 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "lag" is probably the wheel on the grass spinning.
Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 444
Reg: 08-2006

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 02:20 pm, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And going by logic and backed up by what Brett said, there should be no lag, it should just take off :-) Hopefully thats the outcome Ill get
Matt Petersen
Tinkerer
NA
V8

Posts: 58
Reg: 01-2008

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 03:21 pm, by:  Matt Petersen (Mattmannz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a Torsen 1 diff that I fitted into my Soarer and I did the tests like you described when I got the centre.

It reacted the same as yours and I thought I had an open diff so I pulled the back cover off and confirmed that it was a Torsen.

The Torsen 2 doesn't need one wheel to be preloaded and will operate like a fully locked diff in most situations.

You will know if you have a Torsen fitted, as described above under hard low speed cornering and during on off throttle transitions you can feel it.

Matt.
Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 445
Reg: 08-2006

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 03:41 pm, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah well I just did the test, and without completely thrashing the grass, i had wheel spin on the wheel which was on the grass for about 2 seconds before car started to pick up....Im guessing its an open diff?????
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 3809
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 05:53 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it sounds like an open diff. None of your free air tests will tell you a thing except that you have normal differential action. An unloaded (no drive) Torsen acts the same as an open centre.

The bitumen/grass test, which both Peter and I (and probably others) have spoken about repeatedly, is the only reasonably reliable test without pulling the diff apart. There are other characteristics but they can be harder to pick. For example, I once proposed that someone try power-drifting out of a roundabout with the logic that if they crashed it was an open centre or bad driving while if they survived then it might be a Torsen or good luck. You might gather I was not being serious.

On the grass/bitumen test, you would not expect a normal takeoff even with a Torsen. The actual drive level will be only a fraction of normal because it becomes the drive supportable by the grass. However, the wheelspin as you described it suggests open. It depends what really comprises "two seconds" and what you did with the throttle and what happened next.

If your car had an after-market Torsen (obviously not having original factory) you would reasonably expect someone to have mentioned it to you during the sale.
Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 446
Reg: 08-2006

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 06:13 pm, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


David Vaughan wrote on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 05:53 pm:

I once proposed that someone try power-drifting out of a roundabout with the logic that if they crashed it was an open centre or bad driving while if they survived then it might be a Torsen or good luck




ROFLMFAO :-) Thats gorgeous Well put David :-)

Yeah I think, IM just going to settle for a CUSCO 2way or Torsen, IM still tossing up between the two...

Now that we have cleared up the fact that my car does not have factory Torsen, if any body has input on which would be the way to go, TORSEN or 2way, I am more than happy to take opinions, as true opinions come from those who have actually used either a Torsen or a 2way :-)

Once again, thanks for everything guys. Dunno what I'll do without SC :-)
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 3810
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 07:24 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-)

There are certain people I think should have taken me up on the proposal

I have a Torsen but have never tried a Cusco, so unfortunately I do not meet those criteria for comment. However, I will offer that 90% of the problem is to have a Torsen diff and 10% is to pick the best one. Unless you plan to go racing, I am overstating the latter figure

Others may disagree. I would respect those who have tried both.
Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 448
Reg: 08-2006

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 07:42 pm, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fair call...I respect that :-) See from what I have been reading on the net, the 2ways are a potential death trap as the LSD is on, whether in acceleration or deceleration, therefore understeering when braking and oversteerign (which I like) when accelerating...........as opposed to a Torsen, which only locks up on acceleration and also is much quiter...argh, cant pick
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 9346
Reg: 11-2004

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 01:31 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unless you are doing serious track days, I think you answered your own question. The Torsen is better mannered and quieter.
Ali Yazici
TryHard
Victoria
Stock UZZ31 with Lexus Badges :-(

Posts: 449
Reg: 08-2006

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 09:21 am, by:  Ali Yazici (Wa_ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah last night in bed, I pretty much came to that same conclusion as well :-) Thanks fellas

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