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  Soarer Central * Suspension * Suspension Question... or "Help Save My Spine!" * Archive through March 20, 2009 Previous Previous    Next Next  

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Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 67
Reg: 10-2006

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Monday, December 29, 2008 - 11:06 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi guys, I brought a set of lowered springs off a member on here and I love the ride height that they provide. However, they are more than a little firm on the crappy roads around where I live and where I work.

Would replacing the shock absorbers to ones better suited to the lower springs give them a little more cushion or am I looking at replacing the springs and the shock absorbers? Is somewhere like Pedders the place to see or are they overpriced?

Someone told me that Supra suspension pieces are available from Toyota and these fit straight into the Soarer providing the ride height (or closer to it than stock, at least) that I desire. Is this correct or did I mishear or imagine the whole thing?

Thanks for your help.
Chris
Jose-Antonio Castillo
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer VVTi

Posts: 1614
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, December 29, 2008 - 11:20 pm, by:  Jose-Antonio Castillo (Ahh_soarer) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What kind of ride are you looking for? Soft and low height I'd say get Espelir springs, super smooth except on big dips etc. they seem to bottom out (however that was on stock shocks).

Right now I have custom Jumboz which have done the job perfectly of keeping a compliant ride.
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 68
Reg: 10-2006

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Monday, December 29, 2008 - 11:37 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want it to be still composed and firmish without being stiff and harsh. Am I dreaming?
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
XTR T-66 Turbo

Posts: 2265
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 12:19 am, by:  James Harris (Haro) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have king springs in my soarer and i reckon they offer a great ride hey, not too stiff but still firm enough.

I also have 19" rims and TEMS suspension.

Perhaps your shockies have died also? I thought the roads were pretty good in Townsville last time i was up that way
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 69
Reg: 10-2006

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 09:58 am, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most of the main roads are decent James. But there are some that I can only just bear. I'm used to it but passengers are constantly complaining.

Would somewhere like Pedders be able to test the shockies?
Gavin Smith
TryHard
Victoria
1.6 fuel sipper

Posts: 120
Reg: 01-2008

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 11:05 am, by:  Gavin Smith (Gavs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, I work with dedicated suspension engineers. Granted we develop primarily off-road suspension systems, but that also includes off-road racing kits as well.

Essentially, by putting on lowered springs without replacing your shocks had decreased the effectiveness of your shock absorbers. Each shock is engineered to have a standard "rest" position, this is where the balance of gas vs. fluid in the shock is set at it's optimal distribution. Then by lowering the car, this distribution has changed, so where the piston now sits in the shock is higher in the tube now, so instead of having that balance between the oil and gas on each side of the piston, you now have gas on the top side and a mix of gas and oil underneath the piston, hence why you're getting a "choppy" ride.

Your dream of firm but compliant is quite easily achievable, you just have to get shocks that are matched to the springs you have
BUT, that doesn't just mean the ride height, it also means the spring's compression rates, if it's a variable compression rate, if by "lowered" you mean "ryobi specials" i.e, cutting out coils, or if they're just re-wound springs. Shock absorbers are very complex things, believe me they can be a nightmare to assemble if they're custom sports ones especially!!!

Oh, Pedders have their uses, like getting your shocks tested, but when it comes to properly designed suspensions, well there's a reason they get their shocks made by Monroe....
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 71
Reg: 10-2006

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 11:27 am, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that Gavin. Answers a lot of my questions. I thought it was something like that. I'll have to head to the nearest Pedders and see what they can do to improve it.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 4103
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 12:26 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Gavin was saying that Pedders might not be over-priced :-)

That is to say, you go there for cheap more than for good.
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 72
Reg: 10-2006

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 12:38 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where do you suggest instead David?
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 73
Reg: 10-2006

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 02:20 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tried Pedders today. Total waste of time. He said that there is nothing available but the stock shock absorbers and could offer no help other than 'the springs are too low for the car'.

Another place told me that the ride might be jarring due to the bump stops and suggested that I cut these so that they do not get hit on every bump. How does this sound? Are the bump stops in the Soarer big enough to be cut down?
James Harris
Goo Roo
QLD
XTR T-66 Turbo

Posts: 2266
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 02:26 pm, by:  James Harris (Haro) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i doubt you are hitting your bump stops mate. King springs only lower the car 35mm !

Do you have TEMS or normal shockies?
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 74
Reg: 10-2006

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 03:58 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TEMS suspension James.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 4104
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 05:11 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can not advise that Chris. I do not live in Queensland. I look for specialists who have word-of-mouth support from people I should be able to trust, or who make sense when I talk to them (many don't :-)).
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 3988
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 07:36 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Take Gavin's advise, you should definitely replace your shocks to match if you have fitted uprated and/or lowered springs. Its not just a matter of comfort, its a matter of safety, as its your shocks that help keep your tires on the road when your moving over a bumpy surface.

I get so pissed off when I see outfits like NZ's "Mag and Turbo warehouse" offering "King Spring lowering kits" free with wheel and tyre combos - the lowering kit consisting of a set of stiffer, lower springs and nothing else - the owner then presumibely slaps them onto the existing factory spec, possibly worn out shocks and away they go to have an accident. Should be illegal.
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 75
Reg: 10-2006

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 10:48 am, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Matthew. Unfortunately I cannot find anyone locally who can or wants to help. Does anyone that has fitted lower springs have a part number or a product name of matching shock absorbers? Might need to source the parts from out of town.
Gavin Smith
TryHard
Victoria
1.6 fuel sipper

Posts: 121
Reg: 01-2008

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Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 03:41 pm, by:  Gavin Smith (Gavs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, unfortunately i think you will have to be looking off-shore for matched shocks, or look at coilover dampers instead, a pricey option I know, but sometimes the easiest....

Pedders are frankly full of sh*t. They sell lowered springs and matched spots ryder dampers for them, they also sell coilover kits for the soarer!! That's why i strongly suggest against going to them!
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 77
Reg: 10-2006

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Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 06:27 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok Gavin. I think you might be right. So do coilovers replace both the springs and the shock absorbers? Any suggestions/recommendations on a quality set of coilovers that will do the job?
Daniel Lee
Goo Roo
Victoria
Soarer GT Limited UZZ31 V8

Posts: 1645
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 06:34 pm, by:  Daniel Lee (Son_gokou) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can get the JZA80 Bilstein Coilovers for around $500.
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 79
Reg: 10-2006

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Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 07:05 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And these will drop straight in to the Soarer Daniel? Are they height adjustable? Sorry that I am asking all these newbie questions.
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 80
Reg: 10-2006

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Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 07:27 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just did a bit of searching. (Should have done it before I asked... Sorry guys) Looks like the Bilstein Coilovers off the Supra are what I am looking for. Good combination of height and comfort. Any hints on where to find some?
Dave Cazes
TryHard
sa
tt

Posts: 280
Reg: 08-2007

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Monday, January 05, 2009 - 02:56 pm, by:  Dave Cazes (Cazman) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Theres no such thing as bilstein A80 coilovers, just bilstein shocks themselves.

Any one can sell you them thats a bilstein dealer, heck even I can.

But the $500 ones are the ones from toyota not form quadrant or sydney shocks, these ones will cost you more like $1000

Oh and you clearly didnt research very well at all, they dont bolt straight in (well they do if you want to dump your car), if you do you will need:
A) new custom springs
B) new spring circlips put into the A80 bilsteins
C) ne spring seats too

Whose the guy who said it wont bottom out on kings? Most of the guys on here are bottoming out everywhere, they just dont care/know about it.

Im guessing that your new lowered springs are too low, they will also be stiffer than stock too, so that wont help you either.

I normally cant be bothered with all the oxy morons on here, but I will give you some good advise to help you, get some progressive bump stops from sydney shocks, heasmans or myself.
Best mod you will do atm, and its the cheapest atm too.
They have been experimenting with them for a while now, and have been incorperated into almost every package they use now
They will need you to do alot of measuring though, alot
Chris Moore
Tinkerer
Queensland
Toyota Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 81
Reg: 10-2006

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Monday, January 05, 2009 - 11:15 pm, by:  Chris Moore (Chris_moore) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the advice (and the insults) I guess Dave. Sorry to have wasted your time and gotten you all fired up.
James Macarin
Tinkerer
South Australia
Soarer z20, Supra A70, Cresta jzx81

Posts: 27
Reg: 07-2007

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Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 06:14 pm, by:  James Macarin (Jimmy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Go Cazman, ever so polite! lol

btw its Ben here :-)
Ron Bassett
Tinkerer
Victoria
v8 LTD

Posts: 57
Reg: 04-2007

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Friday, March 20, 2009 - 08:38 am, by:  Ron Bassett (Ron) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So will a complete OEM supra spring and Bilstein shock combo bolt up to the Soarer with correct ride heights front and rear???
Dave Cazes
TryHard
sa
tt

Posts: 366
Reg: 08-2007

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Friday, March 20, 2009 - 09:46 am, by:  Dave Cazes (Cazman) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ron Bassett wrote on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 08:38 am:

So will a complete OEM supra spring and Bilstein shock combo bolt up to the Soarer with correct ride heights front and rear???




I cannot gaurentee this, i am pretty sure it will lower your car.

The supra shocks have the spring platforms higher than the soarer ones
But they use shorter springs.

The actaul shock lengths are near identical, within 5mm.

Bilsteins can be modified to suit anything

Supras use a smaller rear spring diameter, they require new spring seats to use saorer springs.

I am using supra shocks in mine with new seats (I sold them actually)
I also had the spring seat heigths changed ($30 per shock roughly)

I have changed to coilovers now anyway.

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