Soarer Central: Anyone heard/know anything about these?

Soarer Central Suspension Anyone heard/know anything about these?

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Hakan Pasha
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30

Posts: 207
Reg: 05-2008

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Monday, July 27, 2009 - 08:30 pm, by: Hakan Pasha (Hakanpasha)

http://www.soarerparts.com/categories.asp?cat=7

David Duffell
Tinkerer
nsw
soarer tt

Posts: 70
Reg: 09-2005

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 09:37 am, by: David Duffell (Duffsta)

Just go with VFT bushes you cant beat them. Why go for something that your not sure about when its a bastard of a job and there is something tried and tested many times over with awesome results.

Jeff Bedsor
DieHard
QLD
TT

Posts: 632
Reg: 10-2006

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 09:52 am, by: Jeff Bedsor (Jeff_bedsor)

They actually look quite good, but as you say the VFT bushes are proven.

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1055
Reg: 10-2005

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 12:17 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

VFT are proven to be what, rubber??

I have a full set of VFT bushes that are near new in my 32 and I will be changing them in the very near future to the BranZ bushes.

Michael Toet
Tinkerer
Vic
V8

Posts: 36
Reg: 06-2009

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 12:29 pm, by: Michael Toet (Myke31)

Hi Damian, I am curious as to why you would change if the VFT bushes are near new. What will the BranZ give different to the VFT bushes to warrant a change?

Daniel Lee
Goo Roo
Victoria
Soarer GT Limited UZZ31 V8

Posts: 1871
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 02:03 pm, by: Daniel Lee (Son_gokou)

I'm getting some BranZ front lower bushes next month and will see how good they are!

For the price and warranty (five years 50,000 km), its a good value.

Paul Fitzsimmons
TryHard
nsw
12/96 vvti single

Posts: 208
Reg: 08-2005

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 02:31 pm, by: Paul Fitzsimmons (Oztif)

VFT bushes were made because toyota didn't sell the bushes seperately, only complete control arms.They now do.
Nial at botany recommends OEM.

Ian Johnston
DieHard
South Australia
UZZ30 GT 4.0, UZZ31

Posts: 911
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 03:09 pm, by: Ian Johnston (Ted)

Paul, do you have any idea on OEM prices for lower bushes(front)??

Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1056
Reg: 10-2005

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 03:26 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

Toyota do not sell all bushes and they only sell bushes to suit the Lower control supra arms which are supposed to be the same as a JZZ30.

The bushes are not the same for a V8 soarer and only the lower control arm bushes are available.

More often than not a lot more bushes need to be replaced which are still not available from toyota.

I will go into detail later as to why I will be swapping out near new VFT bushes.

But has Daniel has pointed out they have warranty, they are cheaper and they appear from my inspection of them to be very good quality.

From memory when I priced the toyota bushes to suit supra arm and JZZ30 arm is slightly more expensive than VFT.

Daryl Demarte
Tinkerer
Victoria
IS300 & UZZ32

Posts: 62
Reg: 04-2006

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 06:39 pm, by: Daryl Demarte (Helieng)

Prices are on the soarer parts web site listed at the top of this post.
Branz bushes are the way to go. They have been designed along the line of the originals with strict control over their construction and manufacture.
I have a full set of VFT bushes to go in my 32, but I will be installing Branz bushes instead. I have heard a lot of negative comments about VFT ones, so have opted for the Branz.

Ali Saeed
DieHard
WA
V8 Limited

Posts: 777
Reg: 09-2007

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 09:07 pm, by: Ali Saeed (Ali)

they look fairly similar to the VFT ones

Justin Camilleri
Goo Roo
QLD
Had a 85 MZ10, 92 TT, Now 91 TT

Posts: 1112
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 09:21 pm, by: Justin Camilleri (Just)

Daryl Demarte wrote on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 06:39 pm:
I have heard a lot of negative comments about VFT ones

Where the heck from! ?

Peter Taplin
Tinkerer
Vic
UZZ32 V8 Supercharged & UZZ32 V8 NA

Posts: 100
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 08:37 pm, by: Peter Taplin (Mrfourwd)

Hi Guys
I probably need to let everyone know the reason that we have started to sell and use Branz bushes.
Years ago when bushes were a problem the only option were XXX bushes, these were a solution when no other solution was available, so I along with everyone else fitted bushes and thought "hey that’s not bad feels good" mmm still wanders a bit turn in is a bit slow must be something else wrong with the car.. How wrong we were.. After many months and k's of driving (18000K) the bushes were torn apart. I do not want to name names but many other sets were also failing. Yet perversely some people were experiencing bushes lasting +30,00kl, I had kept a spare set of bushes so we looked at the construction and it looked good... so where now? go back to the people who made the car "Toyota" so I bought a full set of UZZ32 control arms at ridiculous prices (6000+ for the 8 arms) then we started testing the bushes and comparing them to the XXX bushes, what we found was arm deflection using the XXX was almost 40% more than a STD arm and we also found differences between batches of bushes bought from XXX at different times, the quality control was off to the point where even the bonding was failing and the rubber shore rating was different by up to 30 duro points.
At that point I fitted the new control arms to my UZZ32 and the car was transformed a truly amazing difference. We all understand that if the control arm deflects then suspension geometry alters and handling/NVH suffers... from that point onwards we knew we needed a better solution.
The solution was to start producing our own bushes to a higher spec that will provide the ride, noise suppression, handling we all expect along with OEM durability. This has been a development project that has been going on for over 2 years and has culminated in a full set of bushes for all 1991/1997 Soarers with particular emphasis being placed on the UZZ32 bushes which are different in the lower control arm to any other model Soarer. Of course there are also the accumulator bushes for both front and rears.
The hardest part was selecting the best manufacturer for short runs of bushes this proved challenging to say the least, after 4 attempts and a lot a money spent on tooling we settled on a manufacturer who specialises in OEM bushes for Mercedes/BMW/Audi to name a few, the samples they produced were simply perfect and tested to OEM specs. We have fitted the bushes driven and tested the product and they are now ready for release to the public.
We also have competition style rubber bushes being made that will be available early next year with 45% less deflection than the std bushes but these will have substantially more NVH than the stock bushes but less than poly bushes and of course no squeak.
Supra LCA bushes are available but they are different in construction and compliance, they are also more expensive.
Branz have also been contracted by Mustang Motor Sport to supply competition bushes for the new 2008/2009 Mustang and Shelby range of vehicles currently being imported and converted to RHD, a range of high performance parts to replace nolathane style performance parts are being developed, the decision to use Branz as their bush supplier of choice reflects the OEM quality of Branz bushes.
Our bushes are guaranteed for 5 years and 50,000kl for your peace of mind.
As a release special there is also a 20% discount on what is already an amazing price considering what we have all been paying for bushes over the years.
Engine mounts, gearbox mounts, upper turret mounts, cross member insulators and more are in the pipeline, for supercharged vehicles 8mm lower mounts will be available to provide clearance for the supercharger.
If you have any questions please ask and I will try to answer your questions as best I can.
Peter Taplin

George Funa
TryHard
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 286
Reg: 05-2006

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Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 11:35 pm, by: George Funa (Fun001)

Excellent stuff Peter. I am sure alot of us will be needing these bushes as our cars age

Dave Cazes
DieHard
SA
tt

Posts: 576
Reg: 08-2007

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Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 09:51 am, by: Dave Cazes (Cazman)

This is all excellent news, what is the overall duro of each of the bushes?
As a guide a superpro bush off the shelf is 85, im just curious where the stock toyota bush lies, and your bush too.
Very good news though, also any predicted costs?
I would use these over a urethane bush in a daily driver anyday.

The only criticism is maybe use some paragraphs next time, that was hard on my eyes

Peter Taplin wrote on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 08:37 pm:
We also have competition style rubber bushes being made that will be available early next year with 45% less deflection than the std bushes but these will have substantially more NVH than the stock bushes but less than poly bushes and of course no squeak.

As far as this comment, I can honestly say, dont bother. As you would know rubber causes stiction, where the arms dont want to move through their arc,, as they are actually getting restricted by the rubber.
This also increases load and your effective spring rate. (which in a race car is BAD)

The next problem is binding, which is when 2 or more arms are all forcing themselves against each other and one will make another arm get stuck in its movement arc,
We are lucky that the soarers dont get much binding stock, but once you add stiffer duro rubber in the problem gets worse, NOT better.

While the arms wont deflect as much, this in a step backwards for race cars.

I am in no way putting your individual product down, but when advertising something for "race" it has to fit the bill.
You product would be great for a street car that wants the sharpest handling with the best NVB levels.

now dont worry, Im NOT peddling uethane as an excellent alternative, as in your car, they are similar, they just require more maintenance and dont absorb NVB as well as rubber.
The advantages of urethane bushing is cheap performance, but they have ALL of the pit falls that I wrote above. Depending on the DURO of your "race" version will determine how much stiction the have though.

Here is an excellent link to binding in race cars
http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/binding.htm

Here is an excellent link to rubber and uethane bushing stiction/friction.
In this case your stiffer rubber falls into the same category.
http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/polyurethanefriction.htm

For race cars (or serious street cars like my own)
You really need to step up to a spherical bearing, rose joint, heim joint etc.

NVB levels go up alot, but in a race car, or a car that actually gets used hard, then these are your no compromise solution.

The ball joint allows for 0, yes 0 deflection, unlike any bush that will deflect to some point.
The ball joint allows for all the rotation you could need with virtually NO stiction also, so you get no binding and your effective spring rate stays the same throughout the suspension travel.

These are a cheap and easy to service solution also, but they do add the most NVB possible, but for race cars or people that just dont care, they are the ONLY solution for keeping your suspension settings perfect all the time.

Here is the bearing we us, its a QA1 PTFE lined item.

On the street id give it a 5000-10000 KM warranty, and smae on the track, but no race car is every going to do that many KMs.
They should get even more KMs than that also.

These have a breakaway stiction of about 5 pounds, if you were to measure stock bushes youd be up to about 100 pounds, and they get progressively worse the more you deflect a rubber bush.

These are not new, and you may be surprised to find that your soarer already has 10 PER SIDE, of these bearings in your car, except they are called ball joints.
They are a greased version with no PTFE liner.
They are located on EVERY SINGLE suspension part in your car except the traction rod.
Everything.

These sell for about $17 per bearing when they need replacing,so they are very cheap really.
The whole kit and caboodle costs around about $55 per complete bearing, carrier, and stainless misalignment spacer.
There are 6 of these in the rear end of supras/soarers, so for just over $300 you have the best setup ever, and its cheap and easy to maintain.

There are other arms in the soarer that need changing for race use too, the 6 bearings are only the start.

More on this later I guess.

The whole point Im making is, in Australia there is a very niche market for "race" supras and soarers.
Most if they were serious have already stepped up to our bearing (simply because no one else makes them)

Please dont take this as a slug at your product at all, what Im saying is for a race use car, dont use urethane or rubber in any duro or any brand.

The only solution for race cars is a spherical jointed link.

If anyone requires any more info, or has any questions, feel free to PM or better yet post up on this forum