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Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car

Posts: 1983
Reg: 04-2006

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Friday, March 05, 2010 - 09:38 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

selby.

They do weigh a bit though.
Ali Saeed
Goo Roo
WA
V8 Limited

Posts: 1893
Reg: 09-2007

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Friday, March 05, 2010 - 11:47 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what about TRD ones for supras?
Scott Casey
TryHard
nsw
soarer v8

Posts: 425
Reg: 02-2008

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 08:22 am, by:  Scott Casey (V8soarer_1991) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I brought adjustable selby front and rear swaybars from Dave Craze.

Selby swaybars paired with HSD HR series coilovers (green) is like .

As Ben Lipman knows flying around the race track beating more powerful cars.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car

Posts: 1987
Reg: 04-2006

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 08:43 am, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, that is the setup I run. Good for the money, but I will not try and tell anyone it is the best possible setup. Just what I could do on a budget.

Once I stiffened the suspension combined with semi slicks it did show up the soft chassis, but a strut brace helped stiffen this up. Not such an issue on a street car.

What I will say though, is sway bars are not the sort of things people usually go through multiple sets of on the same car. This means you'll have a hard time getting decent comparisons as most will be comparing their preferred brand to worn out old stock components. This gets worse if they replaced/upgraded the bushes etc at the same time.

I believe, based on a lot of their other stuff, that the TRD equipment would probably be pretty good. The only issue is that it might be targeted at the 'sporty' segment of the road going market and not hard core track racers.

You could always have a look at what some of the supra guys are running (essentially the same chassis/suspension after all)
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car

Posts: 1988
Reg: 04-2006

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 08:52 am, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Tim Uhen wrote on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 06:26 pm:

I've got the car stiffen with superpro bushing all round with whiteline swaybars (middle setting) with newish airbags. The car feels more stable at corning but it's no EVO/WRX/UZZ32 but the car is able to steer around corner without getting unsettled.

With strut bracing will be useful if there had been previously stressed or weaken chassis (like a front accident) it will assist in the strength of the strut towers. But with soarers they are built pretty solid therefore there is no real need for one. The only time which I would add one if there was a factory option or had some sort of frontal accident.

There are two minds about it if you stiffen the car too much as Damian said the car will come too twitchy especially in the wet. There have to be some compromise with the suspension to provide traction also grip.

Also swaybars are not too expensive (approx $180 per bar ) which made decide to buy a set few months ago. Shelby bars are Whiteline anyway so shop around for the cheapest price.




I should add, Tim, that I am a believer that all suspension movement should come from the suspension. The chassis cannot be to stiff, without going beyond the point where you are actually creating premature wear and tear, metal fatigue, warping etc.

If you want a softer setup, soften your springs and shocks. Any part of the chassis that flexes is unpredictable and uncontrolled and will contribute to poor handling.
Phil Gibson
Goo Roo
WA
'91 UZZ31 track bunky, '94 blk/blk UZZ31

Posts: 1600
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 10:59 am, by:  Phil Gibson (Sciflyer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Scott Casey wrote on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 08:22 am:

Selby swaybars paired with HSD HR series coilovers (green) is like .

As Ben Lipman knows flying around the race track beating more powerful cars.




and me too :-)

But really our setups are "budget" track stuff, dont kid yourself that they are what you would go for if you were building a serious race car
Jesse Twartz
Tinkerer
South Australia
Soarer TT

Posts: 26
Reg: 02-2010

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Monday, March 15, 2010 - 03:51 pm, by:  Jesse Twartz (Jwest) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anything that reduces the body roll in your car can only be considered a good thing for handling surely. Whilst the soarer may not 'roll' as such it certainly does 'lean' thanks to it's weight and size.

Depending on how far you want to go I can see it becoming a real handicap if not properly addressed. Given that HPI are strongly in favour of sways I'm inclined to believe they are worth it. HPI is certainly one of the much better mags as far as their information and knowledge goes.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1441
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, March 15, 2010 - 06:58 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ben Lipman wrote on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 08:52 am:

I should add, Tim, that I am a believer that all suspension movement should come from the suspension. The chassis cannot be to stiff, without going beyond the point where you are actually creating premature wear and tear, metal fatigue, warping etc.

If you want a softer setup, soften your springs and shocks. Any part of the chassis that flexes is unpredictable and uncontrolled and will contribute to poor handling.




Ben I used to think like this as well.

My theory used to be that the chassi should be as stiff as possible then adjust the suspension to suit.

This is actually incorect, as there have been noticeable improvement in grip levels by deliberately increasing chassi flex.

The problem with chassi flex as you have suggest is stability, a stiffer chassi stiffer suspension will make the car transfer less weight generating as a result less grip but it will be more stable and probably have faster weight transfer pending on the shocks.

The rule of thumb used with RC cars was to make the suspension as soft as possible adjust roll centers to transfer as much weight as possible to generate as much grip as possible. This is all taken to the edge of stability where maximum grip is achieved but the car is really on the edge then stiffen it up a little to regain the stability and control so you can drive the car hard without lossing control or having it suddenly bite in or snap out on you.

Beyond this you are often chasing the particular track you are on to optimise weight transfer ie through a combination of close bends to achieve best possible lap times.

In real world cars as far as I am aware most car certainly of soarers vintage didn't have a chassi that was beyond a stiffness level that would reduce grip. They are quite soft and bracing within reason ie strut brace to stiffen the chassi will only be a plus.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car

Posts: 2017
Reg: 04-2006

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Monday, March 15, 2010 - 09:09 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe if you could predict the level of chassis flex, accurately anticipate and dial in the changes in suspension geomety and mounting points (in relation to each other) and find a way to dampen/control the resulting oscilation in the soft chassis there would be an advantage. Until then I'll stick to the suspension doing the work of the suspension.

I am sure this has all been investigated by top level racing formulas and any advantage exploited. They would have the cash, people and time to work this all out. For the rest of us I think we are better off trusting in the tried and true method of a stiff chassis and good suspension/dampers.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1442
Reg: 10-2005

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Monday, March 15, 2010 - 11:21 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Until about 10 years ago (at least with production car racing) it was not possible to build a chassi stiff enough when running racing slicks and additional downforce to result ina situation where allowing for extra felx was of bennifit.

From what I have been told in the last 4-5 years chassi flex adjustement has been introduced in some cars.

In your case and for all soarers IMO strut braces front and rear along with a full cage might get a soarer chassi to the point where increasing flex might be of bennift but I doubt it. For a stock chassi running grippy tyres a strut brace IMO is well worth while.

PS only a good strut brace like the one you made and not those cheap ebay crap.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car

Posts: 2022
Reg: 04-2006

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 11:12 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

fairy nuff.

My strut bar is pretty solid, LOL. I'll redo that one day, in aluminium.

I only fitted it once I saw how bad the flex was between the strut towers, and also between the towers and the fire wall. The before and after is pretty noticeable.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1443
Reg: 10-2005

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 11:43 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure your strut brace has made a big difference, soarer chassi's is like butter compared with a lot of late model cars and space frame chassi's.

Toyota did add extra bracing in the later model soarers indicated they were not stiff enough from factory.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car

Posts: 2025
Reg: 04-2006

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 08:53 am, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you seen the 'brace' in the Aristo. Looks like part of a building was cut out and fitted. That thing is solid, and a good indication how Manufacturers think they should be made.

I understand why some are hinged, as fitting my solid brace involves jacking the car up and dropping one shocky out. But from a performance perspective it kinda defeats the purpose.

Haha- I just realised how off topic we are - sway bars: they work much better when you have a strut brace...

Jesse Twartz wrote on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 03:51 pm:

Depending on how far you want to go I can see it becoming a real handicap if not properly addressed. Given that HPI are strongly in favour of sways I'm inclined to believe they are worth it. HPI is certainly one of the much better mags as far as their information and knowledge goes.




Just be sure to verify information drawn from there. Every now and then I read something and think "hang on that isn't right", or "whoa that is a bit oversimplified". You are right- it is better than some of the other mags that are responsible for that crime against the motor car, "sex spec". There are a couple of other mags that are good as well but they all seem to be from the same publisher and writers.

There has been a run of track day orientated articles lately and there are some good bits of info, and then they drop a pearler like saying one of the first mods you should do to your daily if you want to go to the track is fit bonnet pins. WRONG! ADRs from sometime in the 80s(???) mandated a secondary bonnet catch on every car sold in Australia and CAMS says this'll do.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1444
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 09:24 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep I have seen the Aristo brace, and as you say OEM design that works and it is how they should all be built.

The only supra soarer brace I have seen that would have been effective cost $700 which is the only reason I didn't buy one and fit it on my own car.
Jesse Twartz
Tinkerer
South Australia
Soarer TT

Posts: 27
Reg: 02-2010

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 11:40 am, by:  Jesse Twartz (Jwest) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah that's a good call Ben. I can't believe what HotFours has become lately. It's about 10% cars and 90% clothing, music and other junk you didn't buy the magazine for.

Having said that: As much as HPI like to crank out the occassional bit of rubbish (i.e. the bonnet pins you mentioned)it's quite a bit rarer than some of the others you referred to.

You feel a strut brace would significantly increase the affect of the sways?

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