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Chris De Vere
Tinkerer
QLD
UZZ31 V8 limited

Posts: 18
Reg: 07-2010

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 04:26 pm, by:  Chris De Vere (Red_zx) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am wanting to know how much power the toyota diff can handle?
Currently I have the standard single spinner, but what is the strongest diff that fits these things? TT soarer? Supra?
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11833
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 05:16 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Torsen Mk II is the strongest.
Scott Wilkes
Goo Roo
Tasmania
92 TT Factory Manual, 70 HG GTS Monaro

Posts: 1753
Reg: 10-2008

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 05:29 pm, by:  Scott Wilkes (Scottywilkes) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

surely a TRD clutch pack centre LSD would be stronger than the factory torsens?
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 11834
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 05:37 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welded diff is stronger still. :-)

Depends what you want to do with it.
Scott Wilkes
Goo Roo
Tasmania
92 TT Factory Manual, 70 HG GTS Monaro

Posts: 1754
Reg: 10-2008

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Saturday, September 11, 2010 - 06:15 pm, by:  Scott Wilkes (Scottywilkes) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well where talking about the diff in general, the casing, bearings, ring and pinion gears are generally all the same, the only change is with the diff centre.

If there all setup correctly, cant see why they all cant handle 400rwkw or so, single spinner being the acception there though haha.
Guy Moore
TryHard
QLD
JZZ30 TT M/T

Posts: 162
Reg: 03-2010

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 09:04 am, by:  Guy Moore (Thesoarerguy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't bother with the torsen go an aftermarket with chrome molly centre like cusco or kaaz alot better money spent stranger and last longer
Chris De Vere
Tinkerer
QLD
UZZ31 V8 limited

Posts: 19
Reg: 07-2010

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 03:20 pm, by:  Chris De Vere (Red_zx) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for the quick replies guys. I will most likely end up going aftermarket like the Cusco or Kaaz.
Costa Tsimiklis
DieHard
Victoria
386.2 rwkw Soon T51R or GT4094 :-O

Posts: 937
Reg: 07-2008

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:11 pm, by:  Costa Tsimiklis (Driftshop) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let me know when you are ready chris, I may be able to source you a new Kaaz diff at a good price.

TRD diff will handle 400+ rwkw (my actual power testing)

Torsen will handle this as well, as long as you are not planning on drifting around corners and clutch kicking. This is what kills the diffs.

Stock diffs are a bit of an enigma ... some last, some break, even with stock power. The factory 2 pinion design is CRAP and what ends up happening is that the pins tend to elongate their holes in the diff center and you get clicking/rattly diffs that end up killing themselves. This can be dangerous as I have had the small pinion gear get wedged between the crown and front gear, causing the diff to lock up. Lucky this was only at 10kms, but scary when you think about doing 100km/h on the freeway and booting it to overtake and then the rear locks up!
Phil Gibson
Goo Roo
WA
'91 manual UZZ31 track bunky, '94 blk/blk UZZ31

Posts: 1706
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 11:31 pm, by:  Phil Gibson (Sciflyer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you consider what the factory open diff was designed for it is fine, there arent exactly a lot of open diffs in any car that will cope with abuse or huge power increases over stock
Costa Tsimiklis
DieHard
Victoria
386.2 rwkw Soon T51R or GT4094 :-O

Posts: 938
Reg: 07-2008

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Monday, September 13, 2010 - 10:55 am, by:  Costa Tsimiklis (Driftshop) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil, the factory diff is an absolute faulty design and it is not fine in any way shape or form. The carrier thickness should have been at least 50% more and there should have been 4 pinion gears to distribute the torque evenly to each shaft gear. I've broken two and both had the same problem - elongated carrier holes from the pinion pins. One has 250rwkw and the other was a stock setup.

With a soarer weighing in at 1600kg + having 186-206 kw, a 2 pinion diff is a real oversight and is not acceptable. VL Turbos and Holden V8s had a borg warner diff which had a stronger 4 pinion setup, and their peak power from factory was 155kw for the turbo and a bit less for the v8, and the car was around 1450 kg. Toyota really went cheap on the rear diff for whatever reason, perhaps it was a oversight or just a cost cutting exercise. Regardless, the 2 pinion diff is dangerous when you are looking at putting through 50-100% more power and if you are thinking of doing any track work
James Johnson
TryHard
Auckland
UZZ31 Soarer

Posts: 392
Reg: 03-2009

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Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 04:38 pm, by:  James Johnson (Jimbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Costa Tsimiklis wrote on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:11 pm:

Stock diffs are a bit of an enigma ... some last, some break, even with stock power. The factory 2 pinion design is CRAP and what ends up happening is that the pins tend to elongate their holes in the diff center and you get clicking/rattly diffs that end up killing themselves. This can be dangerous as I have had the small pinion gear get wedged between the crown and front gear, causing the diff to lock up. Lucky this was only at 10kms, but scary when you think about doing 100km/h on the freeway and booting it to overtake and then the rear locks up!




Been there done that Costa and not fun, no lock up tho as it snapped the drive shaft part of the diff so I had to get a whole new diff.
Damian Ware
Goo Roo
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 1745
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 01:02 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Costa Tsimiklis wrote on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 10:55 am:

Phil, the factory diff is an absolute faulty design and it is not fine in any way shape or form. The carrier thickness should have been at least 50% more and there should have been 4 pinion gears to distribute the torque evenly to each shaft gear. I've broken two and both had the same problem - elongated carrier holes from the pinion pins. One has 250rwkw and the other was a stock setup.

With a soarer weighing in at 1600kg + having 186-206 kw, a 2 pinion diff is a real oversight and is not acceptable. VL Turbos and Holden V8s had a borg warner diff which had a stronger 4 pinion setup, and their peak power from factory was 155kw for the turbo and a bit less for the v8, and the car was around 1450 kg. Toyota really went cheap on the rear diff for whatever reason, perhaps it was a oversight or just a cost cutting exercise. Regardless, the 2 pinion diff is dangerous when you are looking at putting through 50-100% more power and if you are thinking of doing any track work




Stock diffs are not that bad, I have seen a few survive on the track with 200rwkw plus.

I can think of a few people that have run over 250rwkw with the stock diff without issue, Peter Taplin for one was running a stock diff with over 300rwkw for a whilst with mega amounts of torque (short term he ran over 400rwkw).

I agree 4 pinions are better and IMO probably what toyota should have used but as per above the stock diffs have proven to be very reliable for the vast majority of people.

Type II torsens in the soarer housing have survived sub 9 second passes in the states.

There is the option of going to the bigger supra diff if you are in doubt but the gear ratios really only worth with the v160/v161 6spd supra box.
Phil Gibson
Goo Roo
WA
'91 manual UZZ31 track bunky, '94 blk/blk UZZ31

Posts: 1708
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 05:24 pm, by:  Phil Gibson (Sciflyer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Aristo has the exact same diff yet is heavier *and* is powered by a 2JZ - yet there doesnt seem to be any rampant diff-wrecking with them?
Costa Tsimiklis
DieHard
Victoria
386.2 rwkw Soon T51R or GT4094 :-O

Posts: 962
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 10:10 pm, by:  Costa Tsimiklis (Driftshop) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone has their story, but my opinion is based on what I know form my experience driving powerful Soarers on the street and track and looking at the faulty design with a critical eye.

I've got 3 diffs from customer swaps in the workshop that are fscked with the exact same problem - the carrier section that holds the pinion pin elongates the pinion gears go out of mesh, creating exponential wear and eventually the pinion pin falls through. I'll get some pictures up of my diff and the mess it caused :-O

For the record, One of my Soarers had 250rwkw and it did not wheel spin under acceleration or do burnouts when it was auto, largely due to the grippy tyres. In 6 months, the diff shat itself and the car was only street driven. In fact it shat itself when my dad was driving it while I was overseas, and he didn't drive it that hard.

I have a strong feeling that axle tramp accelerates the problem with the vibration and constant torque shock loads from grip and no grip during the wheel spin. Combine this with heavy throttle on/off torque loading and you will see just how quickly the diff will deteriorate.

Sure you can make big power and have it survive, but if it does let go unexpectedly at high speed, just hope that the pinion gears stay put in the carrier! I always recommend anyone with a big power build to either get a Torsen or a Mechanical LSD to avoid an unlucky stack. I've just seen too many fail since I got into Soarers back in 2001.
Rob Rojo
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer Single Turbo Manual

Posts: 4541
Reg: 02-2010

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Monday, September 20, 2010 - 05:26 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My old TT soarer was running a stock open diff making 254rwkw and did about 60 passes running constant low 12's at the drags with some very hard launches and never had a problem, I did swap to a torsen for the extra grip ect and didn't have any problems with that either.

I do agree with Costa 100% when it comes to axle tramp being a major problem with soarers diffs breaking though.

I just fitted my TRD 2-way LSD on Friday which are supposed to be very strong and its great on the road but I was getting some axle tramp as the dampers on the coilovers are set too soft which I will adjust soon.

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