Soarer Central: Archive through October 16, 2007

Soarer Central Transmission Automatic - Shifting Gears manually Archive through October 16, 2007

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Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
Celsior UCF11 V8

Posts: 1467
Reg: 11-2005

Rating: N/A
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Monday, September 10, 2007 - 01:41 pm, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

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I did a search but nothing really answered what I was curious about.

So with the standard 4 speed automatics found in the soarers/Celsiors etc is there any harm done to the mechanics of the engine/gearbox or anything else if the gears a manually shifted up into 1-2 under throttle, same with 2-D and like wise with shifting down to use the engine brake??

Or are there no ill effects and wont harm these gearboxes since they are generally quite strong?

Also, has it proven to be faster for acceleration if the gears are left in drive, or cycled through manually from first? Just curious as Ill be taking the car on the 1/4 mile soon and want to work out which is the best technique...

Ben Kelly
TryHard
Lidcombe
v8

Posts: 182
Reg: 08-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, September 10, 2007 - 06:05 pm, by: Ben Kelly (Ace)

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Mike i dont know if this helps but i was using the gearbox extensively (shifting from low,2 and D) for around 12 months before my gearbox died...not sure if this is a causitive thing or just a random positive correlation. I was also gearing down a lot to use engine braking, but the guy who did my gearbox reckons it uses a different set of gearbox mechanisms to slow(?).He also reckoned that there was nothing special about the durability of the box esp considering the pressures of the v8 (maybe longer life in the old cressida that the boxes come from?). Btw my car has an ORIGINAL 230k on the clock...pretty low for a gearbox change methinks.

Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 2995
Reg: 10-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 06:37 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

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In theory the gearbox ECU should stop you from doing anything damaging. I certainly drop from D to 2nd often on long downhills to avoid riding the brakes, and have always done so with all my automatic cars.

Matthew Crawford
TryHard
Victoria
Soarer TT

Posts: 199
Reg: 03-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 05:50 pm, by: Matthew Crawford (Doink)

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Matthew Sharpe wrote on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 06:37 am:
In theory the gearbox ECU should stop you from doing anything damaging. I certainly drop from D to 2nd often on long downhills to avoid riding the brakes, and have always done so with all my automatic cars.

i do exactly the same thing with no problems at all

Vinh Bui
Goo Roo
NSW
94 UZZ31 (V8) / 96 JZZ30 (TT) / 97 JZA80 (TT)

Posts: 1974
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 07:28 pm, by: Vinh Bui (Hyudsjk)

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Even my Toyota Soarer manual suggests engine breaking by turning off O/D first, then dropping into 2nd, then L if really necessary (which should be never)

Adam Peterson
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Bugatti Veyron

Posts: 1142
Reg: 04-2006

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Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 01:15 am, by: Adam Peterson (President)

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Ben, i think your problem was due to your box having done over 200k kms. My last soarer had done 85k kms and with shift kit i would use 1 and 2 gears every day and it never missed a beat for 18 months. Plus with a full exhaust it sounded very nice doing the kick backs from D into 2

:-)

Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
Celsior UCF11 V8

Posts: 1470
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 04:52 am, by: Mike Beck (Gold_40gt)

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Adam Peterson wrote on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 01:15 am:
Plus with a full exhaust it sounded very nice doing the kick backs from D into 2

:-)

Ben Kelly
TryHard
Lidcombe
v8

Posts: 193
Reg: 08-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 08:31 pm, by: Ben Kelly (Ace)

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Im sure you're right adam, but 200k isnt that high is it? in gearbox terms. also i was going to peak torque a lot in L and 2... but if you reckon its ok i'd love to thrash the new box!

:-)

Chris Prak
Tinkerer
WA
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 100
Reg: 12-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:54 pm, by: Chris Prak (Carizma)

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Use gear L to launch your car. The only reason is to stop it from shifting to 2 when you get wheel spin.

I found out that when you leave O/D OFF (light on), on full throttle, it slows your car somehow until you turn it off.

So when at the drags. L to launch, then shift to 2 or D before redline, all this without the O/D (light off).

David Watt
Tinkerer
Qld
TT

Posts: 12
Reg: 09-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 07:00 pm, by: David Watt (David_w)

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Chris Prak wrote on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:54 pm:
Use gear L to launch your car.

Might sound like a rookie question, but how do you dump it at 4k rpm using L? Neutral and then just skip past D and 2?

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2376
Reg: 03-2006

Rating: N/A
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Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 07:09 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

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David, that is a BAD idea and will kill your Gearbox Very Quickly!

Chris, Doesnt help when you spin 1st 2nd and 3rd for over half track

:-)

Luke Nieuwhof
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT

Posts: 2355
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
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Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 07:28 pm, by: Luke Nieuwhof (Luke_nieuwhof)

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Chris, given the power band of the engine at the drags (and I learned this from Dan) it is better to leave power off and let it shift automatically I find.

Damian Ware
DieHard
Victoria
UZZ32

Posts: 584
Reg: 10-2005

Rating: N/A
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Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 10:27 pm, by: Damian Ware (Frozenpod)

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I shifted mine manually all the time both up and down.

I do this in every car I have ever driven and yet to have a problem.

As for reliability over long periods when manually shifting. I used to shift back to first with a squirt of gas to force it to change into gear at red line in a previous toyota for over 300,000km and had no ill effects.

Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 3071
Reg: 10-2005

Rating: N/A
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Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 05:46 am, by: Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt)

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Daniel is right, never dump an auto.

Earl Digby
Tinkerer
WA
1995 GT-L 4.0 V8

Posts: 56
Reg: 02-2007

Rating: N/A
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Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 03:17 pm, by: Earl Digby (Dukezone)

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I've done much research on this and related topics & figure this is as good a thread to comment and ask some advice. I'm no expert so ALL comments welcome: After 6months now with my UZZ31 / Auto / non-LSD I have stopped down-shifting mainly to save my trans. Last car was a '95 XR6 5-sp with h/duty clutch [JOY] and I REALLY miss:
- LSD
- Manual

I mainly down shift to:
- Slow down / save brakes
- Get more control [or 'ownership'] of the car when cornering. I like to 'drive around' corners, not 'brake'. To do the former, I need to brake heavily and that is what I want to avoid / change.

I'm researching my next big spends:
1. Upgrade to LSD
** I take my TRC will be disabled by whomever does the upgrade?
2. Manual Conversion
** If I wanted to start with [1] and have get [2] done later, what is an LSD that will work nicely with both auto and manual trans?

LSD & manual conversion will fix all my problems. You all will no doubt tell that I have yet to master the art of 'cornering with control' in my auto. I figure it would cost less to change brake pads than replace my trans. I figure that in the least LSD will make a big difference. My hand always reaches for the shift and I have to re-learn my style, and I really hate that.

David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 3450
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
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Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 03:24 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

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Toyota LSD works nicely with either transmission. Fitting LSD will have zero affect on TRC. They are unrelated.

Jason Underwood
Tinkerer
W.A
Manual V8 Ltd

Posts: 54
Reg: 07-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 04:19 pm, by: Jason Underwood (Jay666)

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Earl, I have done the manual conversion, great upgrade to the V8 soarer, absolutely worth the coin. Like you though, the LSD is much needed, I had an LSD centre put in around a month ago, totally transforms the drive of the car. Very predictable, and easy to control. The manual tranny coupled to the V8 is magic, But with the LSD it's even better.

Good luck with it all.

David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 3451
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 04:45 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

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quote:
The manual tranny coupled to the V8 is magic, but with the LSD it's even better

Likewise. Mine came with factory Torsen to go with the manual from Neil.

Alen Sadikovic
TryHard
VIC
Soarer GTT

Posts: 271
Reg: 10-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 04:55 pm, by: Alen Sadikovic (Alen87)

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a mechanic told me once, that shifting a auto manualy breaks the seals in the gear box, especially at high revs.

Drive (D) was designed for a reason, so i recon stick to it, if they wanted you to change gears your self, they would jst call it a manual, not an auto.

well thats at least my opinion.

David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 3452
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 06:30 pm, by: David Vaughan (Davidv)

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Many "tip-shift" gearboxes are simply an auto with buttons controlling the downshift rather than a lever. That is, shifting down is always an option open to the auto. You control only the highest currently available gear, not what it does below that. "Upshifting" with lever or button is simply permitting the gearbox to make the upshift when it is near or at maximum revs. Some cars will even upshift on you when you hit the redline regardless of the fact you told it to hold a lower gear.

Therefore, if god wanted it to be a manual, he would have made it a bloody manual for real drivers and not some half-arsed pseudo-manual automatic for auto-wankers

Despite that, it also means that attempting to control your auto semi-manually is highly unlikely to damage it unless you are mechanically unsympathetic or inept.

Alen Sadikovic
TryHard
VIC
Soarer GTT

Posts: 272
Reg: 10-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 12:19 pm, by: Alen Sadikovic (Alen87)

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i tried today manually shifting the gears, and it was actually fun. especially when i change from L to 2nd and you can actually hear my BOV hehe usually you cant in Drive.

however, there is some bad side to it to. after 30mins of driving like that i could smell something, i am thinking it was the gear box but i am not sure. later on i drove it on Drive as usual and i didnt feel the usual jerk when it changes gears, so i dnt know what was going on there.

but it was good fun, dont think i'll will be driving like the constantly

Phil Gibson
Goo Roo
WA
'94 black/black UZZ31

Posts: 1132
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 05:54 pm, by: Phil Gibson (Sciflyer)

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David Vaughan wrote on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 03:24 pm:
Fitting LSD will have zero affect on TRC. They are unrelated.

Well not exactly, if anything an LSD makes TRC a bit more useful than it usually is as LSD makes the threshold of wheelspin a fair bit higher and therefore it doesnt cut in as unnecessarily as it would with an open diff

Of course that doesnt change the fact that i usually turn it off anyway unless its raining...

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2394
Reg: 03-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 06:16 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

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Manually selecting gears will do nothing to the box as far as wear and tear goes...

Ive been driving mine manually for over 18 mths and also has done over 120 1/4 mile passes and over 50 dyno runs...

I use the gears to slow down all the time as well on the street and the track.. No dramas here

:-)

Braden Murdoch
DieHard
NSW
Cressida 1JZ TT

Posts: 700
Reg: 04-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, October 05, 2007 - 11:07 am, by: Braden Murdoch (Ribfeast)

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I figure brake pads are cheaper and easier to fit than clutchpacks, so why not use them ;)

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2457
Reg: 03-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 08:36 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

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Hahahahah Braden.. That is so true!

IM the same with brake pads... Cheaper to replace cheap pads that wear quickly, than buy 200+ pads that tear rotors to pieces!

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