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Ashley Young
Tinkerer
vic
soarer v8 31

Posts: 13
Reg: 03-2009

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:01 pm, by:  Ashley Young (1uzman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

can i swap my 3 speed box for a 4 speed in my uzz31 without changing any other parts ie computer and would this be worth doing in the intrests of better fuel econnomy and performance
Ali Saeed
TryHard
WA
V8 Limited

Posts: 498
Reg: 09-2007

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:04 pm, by:  Ali Saeed (Ali) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

v8s already come with 4speed
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

Posts: 2359
Reg: 03-2006

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:09 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, the overdrive makes it 4 speed.

Are you thinking about the late model Chaser/Supra 5 speed auto? It could be done, but would require a lot of electrical trickery I think.
Ashley Young
Tinkerer
vic
soarer v8 31

Posts: 14
Reg: 03-2009

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:13 pm, by:  Ashley Young (1uzman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mine is 3 speed with overdrive the later models come with a 4 speed or are they just a 3 speed with overdrive too
Ashley Young
Tinkerer
vic
soarer v8 31

Posts: 15
Reg: 03-2009

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:16 pm, by:  Ashley Young (1uzman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so is 2600 rpm normal at 110 kph
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 4391
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:19 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3 speed + overdrive == 4 speed. Functionally, it is a 4 speed box. They call it 3 speed + overdrive to cater for "PRNDL" expectations derived from the ancient american 2 and 3 speed gearboxes.

Overdrive is in reality a completely different thing, and the Soarer box does not have real overdrive at all, only the name.

Do you understand what I am saying? If not then I am happy to provide a more detailed explanation.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 4392
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:23 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your last post appeared while I was making mine. 2600 RPM at 110 km/h is normal.
Ashley Young
Tinkerer
vic
soarer v8 31

Posts: 16
Reg: 03-2009

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 07:28 pm, by:  Ashley Young (1uzman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so is 2600 rpm normal at 110 kph
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

Posts: 2362
Reg: 03-2006

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 08:14 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep. Its up there huh? I always look at my TT speedo and think how much nicer another cog would be. The 1JZ twin turbo sits on about 2500 at 100 kph.

Mr Vaughan, explain the detail of Overdrive for myself and others, if you please.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 4393
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 09:30 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Literally, overdrive is simply a ratio in which the drive shaft spins faster than the engine. Gearboxes normally topped at a 1:1 ratio (before the diff ratio) but with overdrive you might have something like 0.85:1. It was designed principally for greater economy and rarely provided optimal top speed let alone acceleration.

In its original form, overdrive was for practical purposes a second gearbox with two speeds, normal and overdrive. This typically attached at the rear of the standard gearbox.

The effect of a second gearbox is that the additional ratio is available in all of the gears in the main gearbox but it was not used in this way (unlike low ratio in a Land Rover, for example) for two reasons. Firstly, you have gear overlap so not much point, and secondly the overdrive box was not designed to take a lot of torque in its "overdrive" position. I think the electrically triggered overdrives had a switch to prevent selection below 3rd gear.

These days, a five or six speed gearbox will inevitably have an "overdrive" top ratio but the term overdrive now means no more than the ratio and does not refer to a separate set of ratios or second min-gearbox.

Look up "Laycock electric overdrive" for an example of the older type, used on MGs, Jaguars, Aston Martins, and perhaps even on 1950s Ferraris. Despite the term "electric" it was a hydraulically actuated mini-gearbox sitting behind the main gearbox.

The Soarer, like many automatic cars of the era, had a 4-speed auto box in which the 4th gear was measurably overdrive in ratio. In part for this reason, and in part to allow gear selection in a standard PRNDL or PRNDD2L fashion, 4th gear was switch-selected rather than being on the stick. This makes no difference at all to the fact that it is still just one gearbox, not two. People who say (as they occasionally do here) that they switch off overdrive around town are doing no more than say that they limit themselves to 3rd gear around town and avoid 4th. Would they do that in a manual? It is the same thing.
Matt Petersen
DieHard
NA
V8

Posts: 542
Reg: 01-2008

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 04:16 am, by:  Matt Petersen (Mattmannz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The later model 1UZ motors come with a 5sp auto which is bolt up to our motor's but you would have no way of controlling it.

You could transplant a later model 1UZ VVTI with 5spd and rewire and swap ECU's etc but that would be a big job.

Matt.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4322
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 07:03 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indeed, I had an overdrive in my Dolomite Sprint. It was a large device that attached to the back of the manual gearbox - it was electrically inhibited to work with 3rd and 4th only, giving the car a total of 6 speeds + reverse. Fantastic for the open road, but pretty useless around town (though 3 + overdrive was sometimes useful as it filled a big gap between 3rd and 4th). Once the inhibiter failed and destroyed the overdrive when reverse was selected... expensive fix!

In the Soarer I always leave the overdrive switch on, as effectivly its just another version of some automatic cars (like a lot of Honda's for example) that have the "D3" and "D4" positions on the transmission selector.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
540i E34 V8

Posts: 3525
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 04:08 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot how high the 1UZFE runs with the 4 speed auto on the motorway.

110 and you were doing 2600!

My 540i with the 5 speed is perfect, I can do 120 and just break 2200, I think 130 or 140 is around 2600

More economical in the long run I guess?
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 5020
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 04:46 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TT sits on about 2700-2800 at 110km/h . Its pretty good considering it revs to 7k :-)
Ashley Young
Tinkerer
vic
soarer v8 31

Posts: 17
Reg: 03-2009

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 05:23 pm, by:  Ashley Young (1uzman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

david you are a freak of nature the 5 speed in the vvti's that matt p speaks of is that what is refered to as a 4 speed on ebay this is very confusing it would be a lot less confusing if a manual conversion was not so bloody expensive
Aaron Mead
Goo Roo
NT
Celsior 1UZ-FE Mines, JZZ30 1.5JZ-GTE To4z

Posts: 2364
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:40 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks David. My understanding was that it was simply a ratio where as you said, the drive shaft was turning faster than the crank-anything under 1:1 See, my old man used to crap on about having an overdrive installed on his MGB and how it cost a few quid but gave it a much more cruisier top speed. An 80's child like me had no clue
Sean Routledge
DieHard
Victoria
V8 Limited

Posts: 559
Reg: 07-2008

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 09:17 pm, by:  Sean Routledge (Stircrazy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I ask what other 1UZ's idle at. When I first start mine it idles between 1000-1200 rpm, then drops to between 4-600 rpm after a few minutes. Everyone else's the same? Is this fairly normal?

Cheers, Sean.
Andrew Duaso
Tinkerer
Victoria
V8

Posts: 69
Reg: 02-2009

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 09:19 pm, by:  Andrew Duaso (Andrewd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mines is @ 800rpm in d, but it feels too high, in N it's 1200rpm when warm

my isc is buggered though
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 4328
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 07:06 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mike Beck wrote on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 04:08 pm:

More economical in the long run I guess?




Not quite as simple as that - you have to factor in loads of things like drag, friction etc. An engine thats lugging at 2000RPM will burn more fuel than the same engine in the power band at say 2500rpm. Usually manufactuers spend a bit of time and effort matching final drive ratios up to give efficient speed limit crusing - of course as soon as you start modifying your car all bets are off.
Sean Routledge
DieHard
Victoria
V8 Limited

Posts: 560
Reg: 07-2008

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Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 05:15 pm, by:  Sean Routledge (Stircrazy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Andrew Duaso wrote on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 09:19 pm:

mines is @ 800rpm in d, but it feels too high, in N it's 1200rpm when warm

my isc is buggered though




What does it idle at when cold in neutral?

And what is your ISC?
Andrew Duaso
Tinkerer
Victoria
V8

Posts: 72
Reg: 02-2009

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Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 07:41 pm, by:  Andrew Duaso (Andrewd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

when cold it's around 1400rpm the isc regulates the engine idle speed

when warm it should be about 650rpm in d mines up around 800rpm but sometimes 950ish rpm it's hard to tell due to the lcd tacho

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