Soarer Central: Tranny cooler / shift kit issues

Soarer Central Transmission Tranny cooler / shift kit issues

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Morgan Cross
Goo Roo
Victoria
Soarer TT

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 04:59 pm, by: Morgan Cross (Morgan)

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Just curious, at the moment, I'm extremely happy with my Kewish Stage 2 shift kit, it thumps the car into gears so hard it chirps the rear tyres nicely. However, I don't have a tranny cooler yet.

I'm planning on putting a 3000rpm stally in the car in the next few months and thought if I'm doing that, I'll put a tranny cooler in there too.

Here is my problem, when I drive my car with cold gearbox oil, the dash cracking gear changes from the shift kit are at least 50% softer, after about 2 mins or so of cruise along, once the oil heats up a bit, the gear changes get a lot firmer. It's at that point that I know the gearbox has heated up and I can sink my boot in a little bit more.

Now, I was worried when I put a tranny cooler in my car, that it'll keep the auto fluid too cold, and that may ruin the effect of my shift kit?

Am I paranoid? I hope so...

:-(

Drew Hiron
Tinkerer
Queensland
Soarer TT

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 05:54 pm, by: Drew Hiron (Frag)

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Yeah I think you are being paranoid. Coolers (unless insanly effecient) dont cool the oil down to that extent.

Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:00 pm, by: Peter Nitschke (Pen)

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Normal design put's the cooler before the tranny cooler built into the radiator. This allows the radiator to help get the oil temp up faster and stops it getting too cold. In effect then, the additional cooler is mainly dumping excess heat before the radiator cooler normalises it.

If you put it after the inbuilt one or on it's own, then it will take longer to get to operating temperature and may go below that, especially when cruising in cool weather. Same reason that engines have thermostats.

Ken Packer
Tinkerer
Queensland
TT

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:20 pm, by: Ken Packer (Kpack)

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Tranny coolers are useful when working the trans hard , a la flat out shifting on the race track or drag racing. Although I don't think 3 changes under full throttle ( 13 sec run) could possibly heat the tranny up any thing like sustained full throttle for 5 laps of a race circuit. Heat is what destroys auto's , the cooler they run , the better & the longer they last.

Morgan Cross
Goo Roo
Victoria
Soarer TT

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:32 pm, by: Morgan Cross (Morgan)

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Thanks for the replies.

That's kind of the response I was expecting.

Continuing on with Ken's post. 95% of my driving is grandma themed, that's why I didn't get a tranny cooler with the shift kit.

I might just wait until the hi-stall converter goes in before I bother with a cooler.

Thank you all.

Simon Triantafillou
DieHard
NSW
Soarer Turbo

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:39 pm, by: Simon Triantafillou (Soarer)

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Ken Packer wrote on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:20 pm:
Tranny coolers are useful when working the trans hard , a la flat out shifting on the race track or drag racing. Although I don't think 3 changes under full throttle ( 13 sec run) could possibly heat the tranny up any thing like sustained full throttle for 5 laps of a race circuit. Heat is what destroys auto's , the cooler they run , the better & the longer they last.

Stalling on the line is a bigger killer than shifting hard. It's not just 3 simple gearchanges down the quarter.

Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:39 pm, by: Peter Nitschke (Pen)

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Just had my tranny serviced at MV last week. After 3 years since the last change, a handful of trackdays - some in 40+ degrees heat, and some err hills driving, Michael said there was no evidence of the oil overheating and not to worry about fitting a cooler.

He said it would be a good idea if I flogged it on a daily basis though.

Ben Socratous
TryHard
SA
JZZ30 TT

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 07:09 pm, by: Ben Socratous (Socrates)

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Peter Nitschke wrote on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:39 pm:
He said it would be a good idea if I flogged it on a daily basis though.

007, licensed to hoon?!?

Greg Host
Tinkerer
NSW
GTT-L

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 07:26 pm, by: Greg Host (Ghost)

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Officer: Whats the story young man with all the wheelspinning and fast acceleration. You seem to be in an awful hurry!
Young man: But Officer, I'm not really in a hurry and I didn't want to drive like that, but my transmisson mechanic said I HAD to!

Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have LESS Soarers than Hayden :-(

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 08:02 pm, by: Don Bagnall (Baggs)

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Paul Bernasconi
Tinkerer
wa
soarer tt

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:38 pm, by: Paul Bernasconi (Pauli)

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maybe look at getting the stock stally reconned and raised a bit. i had mine raised to 2800ish (as much as possible). that way it is still very drivable but you will be able to squeeze 3000 out of it at the line with a strong enough foot. but with a stage 2 shift kit i dont think driveablility is your concern.

Chris Davey
DieHard
QLD
Corona

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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 09:56 am, by: Chris Davey (Chris_davey)

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I would definitely recommend getting an oil cooler. Heat is the killer of these boxes and once you get a 3000rpm stall that is heating up the box further. When the box is under the stall speed ie. 2500rpm it is “slipping” like a clutch would but with the transfer of oil, this is when it heats up. I know that with the 3400rpm stall, MV built box, manualised and trans cooler driving around in summer will heat up the box substantially when under the stall speed which is a lot of the time for regular driving. Once you hit the highway, you lock the converter which stops it slipping and heating up so much and the increased airflow helps cool also.

Also, highly recommend getting an oil temp guage on the trans if you are going to race at all. Just get the sender tapped in and it is easy as. I have 2 trans coolers on my car and it doesn’t go through the rad either. I haven’t noticed any strange shifting patterns but I haven’t done the shift kit on this auto yet. My guage is in ferenheit so that is •••• as I can’t work out what the temp is half the time but it stays cool for a while, probably too long for a daily driver and then gets up to temp (end of the blue area) and then on the highway for about 45mins in 30 deg got it above the blue area. I can get these temps some time to explain

:-)

I still have stock stall though (not for long!!!!!!!) so it shouldn’t heat up much. I am expecting to get full use out of my two trans coolers when the new converter is in.

Hope that helps

:-)

Chris Davey
DieHard
QLD
Corona

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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:02 am, by: Chris Davey (Chris_davey)

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Oh yeah and at the other end of the scale if you are picking a very high torque converter you should be sure that the stall is lower than the rpm that the engine drops too when it changes gears. Eg. If you have 5000rpm stall and your engine drops to 4500rpm on changes the time that it is below the stall speed the oil will be cooking! So in my case I know that my rpm drops to 5200rpm so anything below that should be fine as long as I can keep it cool for everyday driving

:-)

Greg Host
Tinkerer
NSW
GTT-L

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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:29 am, by: Greg Host (Ghost)

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Also I dont think you want full boost at your stall speed as it will make regular driving difficult. ie no drive ... then full boost with a violent transition. Great for drags but not too friendly in traffic.

Chris Davey
DieHard
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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 11:42 am, by: Chris Davey (Chris_davey)

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Isn’t that only if you are actually stalling it up though? You aren’t going to stall it up off every set of traffic lights. Wouldn’t it just slip more off the line so basically the car revs a bit more for the speed you are doing compared to normal.

Greg Host
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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 12:55 pm, by: Greg Host (Ghost)

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Well I just did another datalog in my car (still fine tuning) and discovered that if I hold my foot on the brake and give it j-u-s-t enough throttle to get up to stall speed, at exactly 2870rpm the back wheels start to spin with 0 boost.

Moving at about 5km/h and planting it does not make the motor flare straight up to 3000 as I previously thought. Instead it seems to rise fast but steadily (not instantly) up until 3000 rpm when it really starts to get drive.
I think Mike said something about the difference between setting up a turbo stally to a V8 stally.
Apparantly a turbo stally is designed to generate boost before the stall rpm and so puts a little bit of load on the motor before stall. My observations just now seem to support this.

Perhaps this would make a really high stall convertors not so violent as I had imagined unless you really stomped it.

Chris Davey
DieHard
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Corona

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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 01:13 pm, by: Chris Davey (Chris_davey)

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Thanks mate. I love this sort of info.

:-)

Apparantly a turbo stally is designed to generate boost before the stall rpm and so puts a little bit of load on the motor before stall. My observations just now seem to support this.

I would agree with that also. As the torque is multiplied the engine should stall just above the point where a large amount of torque is generated. So make +ve boost at 2800rpm a stall of 3000rpm would be good. Whereas in my case a 3000rpm stall would be no good as no +ve boost there. Probably still spin at that rpm though but that is where the suspension and tyres come into it.

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