Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:45 pm, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
Found this browsing and it is directed at jza80 supras but it all applies to soarers and 1jz's also
1. With a 3800 stall whats it gonna be like to drive on the street? I'm guessing it'll rev to like 2300rpm before start to creep along............ Its not bad at all. I love my 4k I wont go back. The High stall helps with turbo lag, you get a better power band. The High stall means that at 2300 rpm the car will not move as fast as when you have a lower stall. Our cars don’t produce good power below 35k so you want to rev to 35k as fast as possible. The higher stall will require Extra tranny coolers to keep the heat down. And you will want to lockup the converter when going up long hills or at constant speed driving to keep the heat down.
2. Converter locks........what exactly are they?…………. The Converter has a Clutch plate like a manual trans that when engaged locks the to sides of the converter together so that they don’t slip. You will need to lockup the converter on the dyno to get good numbers. A lot of people don’t like autos because without the lockup, the converter will always Slip and you will lose power. At the strip I lock up the converter in high 2nd or third gear about the 1/8th mile of the track.
3. I hear WOT and locking the converter is no good, but how about for just regular driving around the city or rush hour traffic? Isn't it alright since you are only going at partial throttle?…………… Around town is fine and is a must to keep the heat down. I lock mine up alot on the street and the strip. I only have about 400rwhp with a built tranny so im not worried about breaking a sprag in the tranny. With 500 plus HP I would be careful. My new tranny requires me to manually shift when racing, Transwerks has a custom mod to help take pressure off the sprags when I manually shift.
4. With the lock will the car move more like stock and then when I'm trying to race or just cruising on the freeway turn the lock off?……………. On the freeway turn the lock ON. It will help keep the heat down and you will get better gas mileage.
5. Can you please send me your diagrams again of how you did your lock with your stock ECU
6. The lock is just something you make right? Not something you have to go and buy.....besides a few odds and ends from like a hardware store?………… all you need is a solenoid, wire, and some connectors.
Notes A Torque Converter is fluid-filled case that contains a set of turbines - there is an input turbine that is driven by the engine, an output turbine that connected to the transmission's input shaft, and a stator turbine between them that directs and controls the flow of the fluid. At a certain input RPM, the torque converter will reach its maximum fluid flow. Below this input RPM, there is poor hydraulic "coupling" between the input turbine and the output turbine - there is a lot of "slippage". Above this input RPM there is a hydraulic "lockup" - there is almost no slippage between the input turbine and the output turbine. This certain input RPM is called the "stall speed" of the converter. This property of a torque converter allows an engine to rev-up to a speed where it begins to make significant power (commonly referred to as "torque multiplication") before being put under a heavy load. The stall speed of a torque converter needs to be carefully matched to the torque curve of the engine it will be used with. A high-performance or race engine, which makes power only at high RPM, needs a torque converter that has a very high stall speed.
You cannot check the stall speed of a torque converter by pulling the transmission into gear, holding a vehicle with the brakes and adding power -- the drive-wheels will begin to spin long before you reach full-power. The proper way to check the stall speed is to make a standing-start, abrupt, foot-to-the-floor acceleration run and note the RPM shown on the tach at the instant the vehicle begins to move. This test actually measures "flash stall", but this is usually very close to the true stall speed of the converter. Also, this test is only valid if the tires do not begin to spin and if the engine can develop sufficient torque to actually reach the rated stall speed. If the tires spin, the apparent stall speed will be high. If the engine does not develop sufficient torque for the converter, the apparent stall speed will be low.
Some torque converters have an internal, hydraulically operated "lockup clutch" in them. At some preset point, the transmission will cause this converter lockup clutch to engage in order to mechanically lock the input turbine and the output turbine together. This improves the vehicles efficiency a bit because the slight slippage between the input turbine and the output turbine is eliminated. As a side benefit, some "engine braking" is also available when you take your foot off the accelerator.
The internal parts of the turbines are manufactured from formed sheet metal vanes and machined rings. In most "stock" quality torque converters, the assembly of these parts is primarily accomplished by interlocking mechanical means. In high quality, heavy-duty and high performance torque converters, the turbine assemblies are completely welded or furnace brazed together to provide for a stronger and more robust unit.
As with the rest of the transmission, excessive heat and contamination is what will kill a torque converter. Since the fluid in the torque converter is ATF supplied by the transmission, wear particles and/or bits and pieces of a blown-up transmission will end up in the converter, thereby destroying it. Changing the ATF at regular intervals and installing an external transmission cooler will lead to maximum torque converter life. If an in-radiator transmission cooler fails, ATF contamination with engine coolant will destroy a lockup torque converter.
Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 09:53 pm, by: Greg Host(Ghost)
Thanks Chris. Even though I recently learnt most of this info there was still some things there that were useful and that I didn't know.
Looking at that lockup switch, I think it should be quite easy to program the criteria for lockup with an aftermarket engine management computer. Anyone know what the factory ECU uses for its criteria for triggering the lockup?
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 09:08 am, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
Yep thats what I plan to do. I was going to setup my powermod to switch the lockup on for revs higher than 4000rpm. So in theory it should be locked up for most of the 1/4 mile run.
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 09:18 am, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
Yes you could do that as long as you have the necessary aux outputs.
I want mine manually switched though as it is a lot easier to setup and I am not sure if I want to lock it up at WOT with a stock box. It is not supposed to do it much good. The people that do lock it at WOT have fully rebuilt boxes with strengthened internals. Lockup at WOT was worth an extra 6% at the wheels.
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:09 am, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
6% at the wheels, holy crap. Yeah I'd be doing this once I got my 3200rpm stall convertor in. So i'd hopefully only run the stock internals on the box for not long with lockup.
I went to wsid last night. Could only run a 13.28sec. 60ft was a terrible 2.4sec(stall convertor would just bog the engine as there was plenty of grip so had to wait till about 3700rpm in first before it would take off) and trap was 111.5 miles/hour. I noticed that for every 0.2sec less 60ft time, my et went down 0.3sec and my trap went up 2miles an hour.
So using this on a calculated 1.8sec 60ft which I reckon is very possible on my current setup with the right stall convertor, ET would be 12.38sec and trap speed of 117.5 miles/hour. See how I go.
I was also running full weight, even had my tools in the boot.
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:24 am, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
Sounds like a less extreme version of what happened to me Stock stall and big single turbo sucks hey! My best 60 foot was 2.54 and that is with absolutely 0 boost. Full boost at 330foot at 5700rpm which wouldn’t be as bad in your case it seems.
What tyres were you running? Any wheelspin at all?
Nice trap speed. You are definitely making more power than what I was when I hit the strip! Still running 19psi?
HP = (MPH/234)^3 * weight
You: MPH: 111.5 weight: 3740lbs
Me: MPH: 108.5 weight: 2816lbs
Doesn’t take a genius to see that you are making more power. I was running 15psi.
You: 303rwkw Me: 211rwkw
These numbers may not match up exactly to what a dyno says but in the real world of racing it is the best way to calculate power on an objective basis.
Anyway, good work :D Now you are like me waiting for a stally :P
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:27 am, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
Even when doing the burnout in the water patch, I had to sit on full throttle and brake for about 6 seconds before she went to the limiter spinning the rears. That must have been terrible on my gearbox. I did 3 runs and drove it home, had no problems. There tuff machines.
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:41 am, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
On the line, absolutely no wheel spin what so ever, even when it hit boost. Only on the first run did it get the cherp when changing into second, and that was because i didn't do a burnout. The next two runs I did a burnout (after a long delay of course) and it didn't even cherp.
I was running 25psi of tyre pressure in the rears, which is not even optimial for falken azenis rt215 semi slicks. 20psi is where they work nicely from what I've found.
Yeah still the same tune, running 19psi. I put an XTR turbo cover on before going, which is suppose to make the turbo more efficent and prevent items around the turbo from cooking, which I was starting to see a little with the brake lines. Much cooler after fitting it.
Yeah she seems to be making the power, but for your case you'll be surprised what a diff the 60ft time makes to your trap speed. With a 2.6sec 60ft I had a trap speed of 109.5miles/hour.
Oh and the cars I raced against. One R34 GT-T skyline, one vl commodore and one S15 200sx. The skyline was a funny run, as I did a 2.6 sec 60ft and he was 2 car lengths in front. After the race he came up to me and said, I throught I had that won, then you ripped past me just before the finish line.
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:43 am, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
Oh i'm also going to experiment with the Powermod antilag control once I get the auto sorted. I talked to the owner of Powermod last night, reckons I should be able to get 20psi of boost straight off the line.
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:58 am, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
Sounds like you had fun Sometimes it is good to give the other car a head start :P
I have an XTR turbo bag as well. I was reading the other day that people reckon they are cooking the turbo too hot etc. but I don’t buy into it. Plus the fact that my car doesn’t get driven often enough or long enough I wouldn’t think. My brake booster and master cylinder is only about 10cm from the turbine housing so I had a regular heat shield for a bit and some of that clark rubber heat shield stuff directly on the master cylinder. That worked pretty well but now with the turbo bag you the brake fluid doesn’t get heated up at all which is what I was hoping for. Plus they look tough
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:20 am, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
Yeah I had some fun. My car looks like a stockie or slightly modded and the exhaust sound is very quiet, so it even sounds like stockie. I have 4 mufflers on the exhaust to quiet it down. So people didn't take me seriously. I can't wait to get it sorted, should be a ripper seeing the faces of skyline owners getting ripped down the quarter.
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:49 am, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
4 mufflers!!! I have one and it is too quiet so I got a sleave put on it so I can pull it off easily when I get to the strip. I was sick of not being able to hear my car on the start line
Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 12:51 pm, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
Yep 4 mufflers. Its an exhaust I brought from a member of this forum for 300 bucks in cat back form. It was 2.75" splitting into 2x2.25" exhaust, its now 3" going to 2x2.25" exhaust pipes with the two 2.25" mufflers on each side. I run a 3.5" dump pipe but which probably helps the most.
Running down the quarter. I can barely hear the engine. At over 140, its practically all wind noise. Its pretty comfy, could be sipping a latte and running a 12.
Don Bagnall Moderator New Zealand I have LESS Soarers than Hayden :-(
Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:21 pm, by: Brendan Hax(Chaser_94)
well here is a good example at what a stally and shift kit can do. i got my 2800rpm stally and shift kit done and i went from running a 14.3 @103mph with a 2.48 60ft, to running a 13.8@104 with a 2.22 60ft mark. i only had 2 runs on the nite as there was heaps of oil downs so i think i can get a 13.6 or 13.7 out of it. not bad for the around $800 spent if you put it in yourself.
Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:42 pm, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
Good stuff mate. I reckon you can go low 13's if you can get that 60 foot down a little more. The MPH is there for it. Any wheelspin at all, bogging down? What rpm are you leaving the line at? What tyre pressure and tyre setup?
Friday, March 17, 2006 - 06:20 pm, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
AFAIK the lockup clutch in the box is locking the box a little more than what a regular hydraulic lock can. That is how you can make additional HP at the wheels.
I would be •••••••• myself changing gears at WOT, with the lockup on on the strip unless I had an absolute bulletproof box!
Don't really understand the last bit. Do you mean a manual override of the lockup so that it locks up a bit earlier to save fuel?
Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 02:33 am, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
Haha, Love those Pics Ben, Those photographers are my in-laws They do some really nice work(seeing as they are mainstream wedding photgraphers, but the car bug bit them hard, even from behind a camera kind of view,hehe)
Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:25 pm, by: Brendan Hax(Chaser_94)
chris, i ran it with 38psi in the tyres, like i run on the street, i had no wheelspin, the track was just so sticky, i've never felt it that grippy before. I wasn't doing a burnout to warm the tyres and after a run my tyres were picking up heaps of rocks and stuff, as if i had slicks.
Never seen the track like that in 3-4 years. i'm leaving the line at 2800rpm for the 13.9 run with 4 psi on board. second run i launched at 13.8 at roughly 2900-3000rpm with 5psi. i was running the standard 16 inch rims with 225 wide firestone tyres. It was a last minute thing so i had over 3/4 tank of fuel, but what can u do...
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