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  Soarer Central * Air Conditioning and Climate Control * Need help- Suction Throttle Valve * Archive through September 30, 2010 Previous Previous    Next Next  

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Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

Posts: 26
Reg: 08-2010

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Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 05:20 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Ladies and gents;

I just took my soarer to an auto electrician today as my air con doesn't blow cold air. He found that the problem was that it needed to be re-gassed and that i had a leak. so first thing is first; i need to get the leak fixed, and in order to do this the guy said i need to get a suction throttle valve.

I have not the slightest of clues what this is- apart from a suction throttle valve.

Does anyone know where i could get one at a good price? i live in Bunbury W.A so the closer option would be ideal.

Thanks!
Daniel Langridge
TryHard
qld
tt

Posts: 131
Reg: 07-2008

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Friday, September 24, 2010 - 08:45 am, by:  Daniel Langridge (Daniel_langridge) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Put a pic up Shaydan, I have no idea what it is.
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

Posts: 28
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Friday, September 24, 2010 - 03:22 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's the problem, i Don't know what it is? the auto electrician said it would most likely have another "fancy" name because of the car. I don't even know where this suction throttle valve is, the electrician didn't show me as he wasn't there when i picked my car up.

It seems as though this valve actually may be inside the compressor?

http://www.freshpatents.com/Suction-throttle-valve-of-a-compressor-dt20080605ptan20080131297.php
Boris Siljanoski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
LS400 + Soarer.

Posts: 1141
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Friday, September 24, 2010 - 07:55 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

STV (Suction Throttle Valve) also known as an EPR (Evaporator Pressure Regulator). Here it is

http://www.soarerworld.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8121&stc=1&d=1120077042

This valve is located on the low pressure pipe.

This is used in some A/C Systems as a self balancing type of valve. How it works is there is a piston inside, which is spring loaded, causing a restriction in the low side. It requires a certain pressure to push this piston outward in order for more gas to flow.

The function of this valve is to keep a certain gas pressure inside the evaporator, once the gas pressure builds up, the piston will be pushed outward and more gas can flow.

All Soarers from z10 to z30 have a STV/EPR, located near the passengers strut tower. They have a special type of seal inside that often leaks, and I have not been able to find replacements.

Here are some options you can explore

1. Somebody here tried to take it apart and mill one of the surfaces, so when put back together there is more clamping force on the seal, the thread should be somewhere in the A/C Section. Some people have done this with success, for others it slowed down the leaking.

2. Try get one through Amayama Trading, use Toyodiy to find the part number.

3. Find a spare from a wreck or from somebody who doesn't use their a/c.

4. What I tried doing is looking for sellers of rubber products. Try to find sellers of rubber products/seals, and try find somebody who stocks flat sheets of HNBR, so you can cut a seal out yourself and try use that.
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

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Friday, September 24, 2010 - 08:53 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay Thanks Boris, that's a huge help. Much appreciated

I will try and get onto it before summer hits!
Evan Kaio
DieHard
Beautiful sunny good @ rugby 'Canes' country
'91 UZZ31. 92 TT

Posts: 724
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Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 05:24 pm, by:  Evan Kaio (Knave) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boris, can the regulator be bypassed?
I'm sure I read it somewhere on SW.
Daniel Langridge
TryHard
qld
tt

Posts: 133
Reg: 07-2008

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Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 08:45 pm, by:  Daniel Langridge (Daniel_langridge) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mate i have a spare one, i got 2 a while back when my ac died, works good now, i will sell it for $20 + P&H.
Boris Siljanoski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
LS400 + Soarer.

Posts: 1145
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Monday, September 27, 2010 - 01:51 am, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It "can" be bypassed so to say, but some things to note :

1. What effect will it have on the Operation of the A/C? Now the function of the STV is to maintain a minimum pressure in the Evaporator which from factory would be around 30 PSI (R12 is about 0 Degrees at 30PSI) R134a Similar. By removing this you increase the chance of the evaporator freezing up, blocking airflow through it. With no STV, the gas inside the evaporator has the potential to fall below 30 PSI, thus reducing temps below 0c increasing the likelihood of ice building up and blocking airflow through the core.

You could probably reduce likelihood of this by always running on high fan speed and on recycle (Less humid air passing through to reduce frost?)

2. The STV most likely has a small copper line about 1mm thick running from it, inside the evaporator housing and to the side of the TXV (For more accurate metering of gas into evaporator maybe?), I know the z20's have this not sure about z30's. Once you remove the STV, you have to do something with this copper line, block it off somehow, or get a custom a/c line fabricated with a provision to plug this line into.

Maybe you can get a STV for another vehicle (Falcon/Holden/Mitsu) from Ashdown Ingram, and adapt it to fit?

I was also thinking, could you perhaps remove the seal altogether and weld the seam, and be sure to check for free sliding of the piston afterward.
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

Posts: 33
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Monday, September 27, 2010 - 12:44 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daniel; That sounds great, i just don't know how i would pay. I don't have a credit card or cheque account. And just to reassure myself; it's the STV you have?
Boris Siljanoski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
LS400 + Soarer.

Posts: 1146
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Monday, September 27, 2010 - 03:36 pm, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can do direct deposit if you have a bank account.
Daniel Langridge
TryHard
qld
tt

Posts: 138
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Monday, September 27, 2010 - 04:54 pm, by:  Daniel Langridge (Daniel_langridge) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

im sure but i will check tonight
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

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Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 11:47 am, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm pretty sure i have online banking, so i can pay that way. Doesn't hurt for me to double check though.
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

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Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 12:00 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will the STV be the same for both V8 and TT's?
Daniel Langridge
TryHard
qld
tt

Posts: 143
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Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 01:00 pm, by:  Daniel Langridge (Daniel_langridge) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yer mate i have one, they look the same ?
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

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Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 04:07 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay Daniel, i trust that it's in good condition. Do you know how much it is to post from queensland to 6230?
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

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Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 04:45 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also Boris, is it worth putting the old gas back in that used to be in it? or pay the extra $250 quoted and get the new stuff?

The reason why he (auto electrician) has quoted this amount is he said he will have to get the compressor out and drain everything before he can put the new type in, and that the compressor will be very difficult to get out.
Daniel Langridge
TryHard
qld
tt

Posts: 144
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Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 08:41 pm, by:  Daniel Langridge (Daniel_langridge) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow thats not so cheap mine only cost $150 and the compressor did not come out, just a regas for $110 and retro fit the value for about $30 or $40
Matt Petersen
DieHard
NA
V8

Posts: 806
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Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 05:57 am, by:  Matt Petersen (Mattmannz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The compressor shouldn't need to come out but typically when you switch from R12 to R134 there is a bit of work involved.

Generally any seals and orings in the system need to be replaced and often the flexible lines as well.

A thorough vacuum and evac of the system then a refill of gas and new oil.

Matt
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

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Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 11:00 am, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, That's the benefits of being a school kid, business's try and rip you off.

I'll go and see him today and ask him what he REALLY needs to do.

And Daniel, any pics of your STV? I Want to buy it.
Daniel Langridge
TryHard
qld
tt

Posts: 145
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Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 02:14 pm, by:  Daniel Langridge (Daniel_langridge) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mate i dont have a clue how to do photos but it looks in very good condition, i can try to get the girlfriend to do it
Evan Kaio
DieHard
Beautiful sunny good @ rugby 'Canes' country
'91 UZZ31. 92 TT

Posts: 740
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Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 05:30 pm, by:  Evan Kaio (Knave) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a seal kit available for the compressor and it is HNBR type seals.

PAG Oil to go in compressor is ND8 type.

You can buy the orings, HNBR type, for bugger all.

Matt Petersen wrote on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 05:57 am:

A thorough vacuum and evac of the system then a refill of gas and new oil.




Matt have you had you air con system sorted?
Matt Petersen
DieHard
NA
V8

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Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 05:51 pm, by:  Matt Petersen (Mattmannz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Evan - no I haven't.

I need to fill with gas and dye and do a leak check.

It's on the todo list :-)
Shaydan Penniment
Tinkerer
WA
uzz30 4.0GT V8

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Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 09:28 pm, by:  Shaydan Penniment (Shaydy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay guys. Got quoted $350 to fit the STV, Replace the dryer and valves, and some other stuff that i can't remember, and i think he said replace the seals, and then finally fill it up with R134a.

A lot of money. Sounds like i'm better off driving to Queensland and getting it done there!!

Anyone think this price is a bit extraordinary?
Boris Siljanoski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
LS400 + Soarer.

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Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 03:24 am, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

If switching from R12 to R134a which is required as R12 has been phased out, the system needs to be flushed to get as most of old mineral oil out and any other contaminants. The problem with A/C Systems is not knowing the previous history, current oil level, as the best is a full flush. Solvent flush pipes/lines, Reverse flush condenser, then flush opposite way, dry residual solvent out with dry shop air or nitrogen

To do a full flush, the evaporator needs to be removed, as you cannot flush it in the car as the TXV needs removing. YOU CANNOT FLUSH THROUGH TXV's. It is a good idea to replace the TXV at this time too. A very large portion of the systems oil remains in the evaporator, so it is very important to flush this to avoid any future problems.

The evaporator should be examined using a UV Light for any signs of leakage, this will show up as green residue on the core. Evaporator should be pressure tested with Nitrogen when out of the car at no more than 120 PSI while placed in a pool of water to test for leaks. Do not let anyone feed you the "300 PSI is the Industry Norm for Testing" Garbage, the Evaporator does not see these high pressures not is designed to withstand them, I know of a few cars (mine included) that have developed an evaporator leak after a 300 PSI test. Some places though want to pressure test the whole system at 250-300 PSI and hope that their pressure gauge will indicate a leak.

A better way for testing leaks is to watch the reading on the micron gauge while the system is being pulled under vacuum, and to use a UV light to inspect hose connections, condenser core and underside of compressor for leaks while the system is operating, and pay attention for weird smells out of the vents that hint evaporator leaks. Sniffers can also be used to detect leaks.

The compressor needs to be removed so as much as the old oil can be drained, having it out of the car makes it easier. The compressor needs to be oil flushed, not solvent flushed. This consists of pouring new oil into the compressor, spinning the clutch allowing it to pass through the compressor, and out of it removing any debris or dirt, and removing old oil. Finally draining all the oil out again, then refilling with specified amount of PAG or better yet, Synthetic Oil before fitting it back to the car.

Receiver/drier has to be replaced as soon as possible before the regas is done.

O-rings. Traditional NBR O-rings are "compatible" with R134a so to say, but do swell a little bit more with R134A/PAG in the system, not dangerously so. They can be re-used it is not critical however as they are 20+ Years old it makes sense to replace them. HNBR seals are more resistant to swelling with R134A/PAG so it makes sense to use these if your doing a flush, as you'll be removing most of the hoses to do the flushing so why not replace the seals too.

Our 20+ Year old compressors will be pretty worn, bearings, seals, pistons and bores, valves. So a compressor rebuild at about $300 is a good Idea.

flexible Hoses should be replaced with barrier type hoses specified for R134a, to reduce leakage. A small amount of gas gets passed the original hose even with R134a, but it's still better to replace them with updated ones.

Hardlines should be checked for damage or kinks that could create a restriction.

R134a service fittings are fitted to allow compatibility with the equipment that the shop uses.

Once everything is back together and new oil is in the system, it should be put under a good vacuum until the micron gauge shows 400 microns, the a/c service person should leave the vacuum pump on for a period of time after the first 400 micron reading shows, to watch for any fluctuations that could hint a leak.

System can now be charged with correct amount of gas for the car.
Boris Siljanoski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
LS400 + Soarer.

Posts: 1149
Reg: 11-2007

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Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 03:35 am, by:  Boris Siljanoski (Z2tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$350 To Replace STV, Regas, Valves (What valves?), let's break it down.

$100-$150 is the Norm for a Vac+Regas. Replace STV, maybe 30 minutes / $50 Labour? Replace the drier, $50 Labour (Less maybe how hard is it to get to?), parts $10 (If a Universal one fits otherwise $40 or so for Specific).

$350 sounds about right, I have no idea what you mean by replace valves... the only valves in your A/C System are the ones in your compressor, and the TXV (Thermal Expansion Valve) which is in your Evaporator housing, doubt he's replacing that for $350 inclusive, unless he's taking advantage of World Vision.

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