Soarer Central: Archive through September 09, 2007

Soarer Central Celsior Chat Manual Conversion...? Archive through September 09, 2007

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Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 16
Reg: 06-2007

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Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 09:31 am, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

SO I want to know, if it's possible (within a reasonable budget... I can get all the parts for about 3 grand) to convert a celsior to manual. Yes I know there is no pedal box, and most things would have to be fabricated.

In saying this I have seen a few Cresidas converted fully for about 2-3 grand. Sure they are a different car but anyways, The 5spd R145 Supra box is a straight bolt up i'm told...

What do you reckon guys?

I'm really missing driving a manual... so much so that I either would like to do this, or, buy an additional manual vehicle.

Opinions, facts, quotes, anything is appreciated. Rich thinks i'm nuts lol

Jason Underwood
Tinkerer
W.A
Manual V8 Ltd

Posts: 30
Reg: 07-2007

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Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 09:51 am, by: Jason Underwood (Jay666)

One of the main factors for cost is labour. If you think you can do it yourself, you would save a load of cash. I think you mean the R154. You should be able to get the parts you need for around the 2k mark.
It's not exactly a straight bolt up. You will need to swap and modify the bell housing. Next would be to get a flywheel and clutch to suit and to fabricate the clutch fork etc. Flywheel and clutch might have to be a custom item, depending on the clearances etc when you measure it up.
From there, you can use Supra Clutch Master and Slave Cylinders and custom fabricate clutch lines to suit.

Tail shaft would also have to be modified, ie the yoke from the Supra
tailshaft mated and balanced to your Standard tailshaft.

Clutch pedal would be sourced from a Supra/soarer and modified to fit.

From there, it's a matter of rewiring the wiring harness from the
standard transmission to suit the new transmission with regards to
reverse and speedo sensors. Would also have to bypass the neutral switch
to fool the ECU.

Good luck with it all mate. I really think it will be a struggle to have it done for under 3000.

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 17
Reg: 06-2007

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Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 10:13 am, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

I was thinking around the 5k mark. But in saying that i'd have to find someone who knows what they're doing. I'm told there is a supra/soarer specialist on the coast... Would it be worth it do you reckon?

Jason Underwood
Tinkerer
W.A
Manual V8 Ltd

Posts: 31
Reg: 07-2007

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Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 10:34 am, by: Jason Underwood (Jay666)

It's well worth it if you have the money. Totally transforms the car. Get some quotes from some workshops and see how you go. Try and agree on a price as usually a conversion like this sometimes blows out with additional costs, so be careful not to start something you can't finish.

Good luck Simon.

Kevin Cameron
Tinkerer
NSW
Celsior

Posts: 59
Reg: 02-2007

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Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 06:24 pm, by: Kevin Cameron (Kevin)

Simon,

You and I are after the same thing. I personally think the hardest part will be getting a clutch pedal into it. I have also considered if the hand(foot) brake is a concern for rego (hopefully not) about fitting one like a commodore or falcon utility down beside the drivers seat. I haven't looked into this yet, but hope it wont be another problem.

I'm a mechanic by trade and would do all this work myself and first thought that $3000 sounds a lot. I did the manual conversion on the 1JZ-GTE Cressida I built, but this was made easier with a factory Cressida manual pedal box from overseas. But I used a W58 box which is cheaper, but it held up behind approx 230+ engine Kw.
If looked after (no big clutch dumps) I still think the W58 would be ok behind the 1UZ.

A few rough prices I have so far are, Bellhousing $550, Clutch $650, Flywheel $350 plus price of W58 or R154 gearbox $400 - $1000. You still need pedal setup, master and slave cylinder, tailshaft and electrical work. So I guess at least $3000 and this could be just for parts.

All you really need is a clutch pedal as I did in my Cressida. You can keep the original brake pedal and cut the metal foot part down to fit a manual brake pedal rubber. This way you also can keep the stop light switch / cruise control cancel without any mods.

I haven't looked into the gear stick positioning yet. With the W58 in the Cressida I just had to buy a different top for it and this put this stick right where I wanted it. I think similar can be done with the R154.

My manual conversion will be last on the list at this stage as I'm in the process of collecting parts to supercharge it first. Unless I find some buried money, it will have to wait.

Please keep me informed with any information that you may find along the way and maybe between the two of us, we can make this conversion easier.

kevincameron2912@hotmail.com

Good luck, Kevin
.

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 18
Reg: 06-2007

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Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 10:49 pm, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

Sounds good Kevin. I Actually got a lot of my info from

http://www.lextreme.com/1uzfe_info.html

___________________________________

Fitting a 5 speed behind the 1UZ is a common and popular conversion. There are several ways of doing it, but I will stick to the one I know best. This will cost at least $1000 on top of buying the gearbox by the time you source a flywheel, clutch and adapter plate – and probably more like $1200. More on this later.

Firstly, there are two broad ranges of 2WD Toyota 5 speed gearboxes that are used. The most common is the so-called Supra 5 speed that is technically referred to as the W55-59 range of transmissions. These are good for around 300 horsepower and so are well suited to the 1UZ, although you can break them if you try hard enough (generally through abuse). These typically start at around $300 for the more mundane variants, but prices are going up as they become less common. Note I do not have the ratios for a W-56, but it is also a diesel gearbox with short lower gears.

The ‘W’ series boxes have 4 different gear lever positions, depending on which parent vehicle they came from.

The other option is the ‘Supra Turbo’ box, called a R154. These are pretty rare in 2WD form and will typically cost well over $1000 to buy (I have seen them advertised for up to $2000…). To my mind, the extra strength (allegedly almost indestructible) is overkill for a standard engine and normal use.

Don’t waste your time with the old steel case Celica box (W-50).

________________________________________

I was looking at the R154 box because i plan on putting more power through it.

The 3 grand quote i got was complete manual setup from a soarer.. (The guy wrote off his soarer and up the engine into his van lol. So it included master/slave etc. Pedal box... not sure, and I don't really know much about it all so I wouldn't know.

But to be honest, if the whole lot costs under 5 grand, I would probably save up and pay it.

If you reckon labor could be done for under 2 grand i think we'd have a good go... I'll get some quotes from around the joint and post what i come up with.

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 19
Reg: 06-2007

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Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 09:48 am, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

I just remembered I got a quote from Castlemaine Rod shop a year or so ago!!! Here we go:

TOYOTA QUAD CAM V8 TO SUPRA 5 SPEED.

Kit Check List:

1 off PJB 4154
8 off M10 x 1.25P x 45 long – Gearbox to bellhousing
1 off Bellhousing – BH 106A
6 off M 12 x 1.25P x 50 long original Toyota Bolts – Bellhousing to motor
3 off M10 x 1.25P x 45 long original Toyota Bolts – Bellhousing to motor
1 off Flywheel – Part no. FW 44 – CRS 1723
1 off RPM 1091 Clutch Kit
1 off Spigot Bearing – Part no. SB52
1 off Ring Gear – Ring Gear 07
1 off Thrust Bearing – VKC 3502 – TB 09
Pivot Ball – Standard Supra (Remove from original Supra Bellhousing)
Clutch Fork – Standard Supra (Remove from original Supra Bellhousing)
Release Bearing – Standard Supra (Remove from original Supra Bellhousing)
Slave cylinder & Push Rod – Standard Supra (must be a passenger side slave cylinder)
Slave cylinder and bolts – Standard Supra (remove from original Supra Bellhousing)

PARTS NOT INCLUDED IN KIT – TO BE SUPPLIED BY CUSTOMER:

Pressure plate used is Daikin Clutch part no. 950-602HD or PBR 1091N
Flywheel to Crank Bolts – You can use the original 8 off flex plate bolts if they are no shorter than 22mm as shown below. If they are shorter than 22mm you will need to purchase 8off M10 x 1.25 pitch x 25 long HIGH TENSILE BOLTS.
2.

VERY IMPORTANT FITTING OF SLAVE CYLINDER:

NOTE: You will need to carefully grind a small portion of the aluminium sump away to allow the slave cylinder to bolt into position. Do this by removing a small
Amount of metal, then checking the clearance by fitting the salve cylinder to the bellhousing, there needs to be clearance on the slave cylinder and the hydraulic hose that connects to it. (You may be able to use the shape in the bellhousing as a guide to determine how much metal you remove BUT only remove the metal from the aluminium sump, not from the motor.)

They said:

We do a bellhousing kit for $1683.00.
All Prices provided need to have cost of freight added. Please advise if you prefer Post,Courier or other when you order.

___________________________

Thing is i got no idea if that's the whole price or not...

Anyone else wanna email them?

http://www.rodshop.com.au/contact.htm

Kevin?

If parts are only like 2 grand that'll be good. And by the look of that first part number it's the R154 box... correct me if i'm wrong...

:-)

If you're a mechanic, and that's all we need. You do it lol

Kevin Cameron
Tinkerer
NSW
Celsior

Posts: 60
Reg: 02-2007

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Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 05:09 pm, by: Kevin Cameron (Kevin)

Simon,

Check out this site http://www.trademe.co.nz/ They have lots of 1UZ parts and you will find all the parts you need, except maybe a clutch pedal to bolt right in.

Kev

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 20
Reg: 06-2007

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 09:34 pm, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

Kevin. Just did some googling and came across this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJssuiPwK_s

It's a soarer but it should give us a ballpark figure/idea. I msgd the guy so i'll wait for him to email me back.

I think after talking to some people I'll have a complete list of parts and will be able to get them. It's just getting that list, then finding someone who will do it.

I think apart from all the things listed up there ^^^ All i need is custom tail shaft, pedal box and clutch pedal...

Correct me if i'm wrong?

Gareth Richards
TryHard
Bristol UK
GTT-L twin turbo auto / Lexus GS300 SE Mk2

Posts: 245
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 09:45 pm, by: Gareth Richards (Garethr)

Simon Martin wrote on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 09:34 pm:
Just did some googling and came across this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJssuiPwK_s

http://www.v8soarer.com/

Damien Smith's SC profile

.

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 21
Reg: 06-2007

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Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 08:24 am, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

All well and good, but he's using the W58 box =\ only good for about 300HP

Whereas i'm gonna put more through mine later on, hence the R154 box.

But yer that's sweet at least someone does it.

Ya I emailed the dude @ Rush imports that did his conversion, just waiting on a reply. He says it cost him about $5500

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 23
Reg: 06-2007

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Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 10:05 pm, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

reply from Neil @ Rush Imports:

Hi Simon,
Info I can not supply as I have not completed such a job.

You could possibly do it yourself.

My costs are unknown as with my first statement

All I can say is..I am the ONLY one who supplies the setup to use the Pull Type Clutch with the R154.

Cheers
Neil.
____________________

What's a pull type clutch setup???

Simon Triantafillou
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer Turbo

Posts: 1176
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 10:57 pm, by: Simon Triantafillou (Soarer)

Opposite to a push type clutch which almost every other car uses. Not sure of the benefits... has to be some since Toyota picked the design for their high powered gearboxes.

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 24
Reg: 06-2007

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Friday, September 07, 2007 - 08:29 am, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

Ok I re email Neil and he just said check the website.

So he does the R154 conversion.

R154 Adaption Kit
$1,350.00
This is sold on an Exchange of Bellhousing ( I will put an Extra Refundable Deposit on the Bellhousing's return )

This kit will come with

Adaptor
CNC Modified Bellhousing
Bolts ( For Adaptor Plate )
Flywheel
Spigot Bush
Instructions

Once again, It doesn't get me much info, as to what else I will need.

No wonder no one has done it, cause no one wants to talk about it !$%@$*%!^@!

Ok. So. Would I be better off going for Neil's setup, or the setup that Castlemaine Rod Shop gave me? I'm still missing parts. Can someone get me a complete list of parts that I will need??? From a mechanical/practical perspective?

Or does anyone know an Import/Supra/Soarer specialist that would be willing to at least try?

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 25
Reg: 06-2007

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Friday, September 07, 2007 - 01:49 pm, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

I also just emailed Mal Wood Auto to see if they would do it. They do the Tremec Boxes but on their page ( http://www.malwoodauto.com.au/ ) they list the Supra 5spd kits. I'm just enquiring which box they use and what other parts i might need if they can't do it... :-)

Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac

and a Supercharged Manual V8

Posts: 4140
Reg: 07-2005

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Votes: 2 (Vote!)

Friday, September 07, 2007 - 07:08 pm, by: Neil Griffiths (Aussiesc)

As knowledge is valuable, sharing it sometimes does not happen.

I have shared so much of what I spent time on to assist others and ended up with No Mention, No Credit, and sometimes not even a Thank You.

So with this I have come to the conclusion I will NOT give out Technical advise.

So I am sorry I wont offer more assistance.

Simon Martin
Tinkerer
Queensland
Celsoir UCF11

Posts: 26
Reg: 06-2007

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Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 08:58 am, by: Simon Martin (Commander)

Neil I'm not that kind of guy... If all goes well I'll make a detailed thread or site of the 5 spd project all all the other things i plan to do later to my car.

Only reason I found you was a guy on Youtube said you did his conversion...

I'm not neccessarily after the info from you, if you can actually do the job yourself, I'll be happy to pay you and give you the credit etc. and refer others to you. But if you can't do it then at least a parts list would be nice?

Regards

Mustafa Akgul
Goo Roo
NSW
Big Mac

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Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 09:40 am, by: Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy)

Simon Martin wrote on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 08:58 am:
I'm not neccessarily after the info from you, if you can actually do the job yourself, I'll be happy to pay you and give you the credit etc. and refer others to you. But if you can't do it then at least a parts list would be nice?

mate I dont think you get the point.

Neil is a trader on here.. he has a mechanical workshop in ACT
and has done most of the research you see and hear about these days..
he was one of the first to supercharge a v8 soarer and also convert to a 5 spd.

he has the knowledge its his business so yes if you pay him he will convert your v8 soarer no worries.

and he is a good bloke so he will look after you..

end free plug.