Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 07:32 pm, by: Ryan Seddon(Ahrjay)
So recently my air suspension has been playing up in a very odd way.
Last week I had a full car driving back from the city and about half way home I could really start to feel the bumps in the road so I pulled over and my rear suspension had completely deflated. The pump wasn't running at all (the front where fine and fully pumped up) even changing the switch from low to high wouldn't change the light in the dash it was stuck on normal.
I left it over night and started it up the next day and the pump kicked in and suspension went up without an issue. Left it at the train station for about 12 hours and it hadn't moved an inch. When I got it home and in the garage I could hear a hissing coming from the rear passenger side and that strut started to go down and was deflated completely in about 30 seconds, the wheel was about an inch under the guard, same deal again left it over night and it pumped up again.
I'm pretty sure it's not a leak as it will hold and won't budge when it decides not to let all the air out. It's almost as if the height sensor in the rear is getting confused and thinks it needs to let the air out but doesn't stop until it's all gone, the rear passenger strut goes lower than the rear driver side strut so it's slightly slanted to one side.
Only thing I can think of is that my battery died and I had it replaced but these symptoms didn't start happening until about a week after I got the battery put in.
Now every time it decides to deflate it will be stuck in whatever height mode I had it in and it won't run the pump until the next day. Anyone ever had this happen to their celsior?
Friday, April 02, 2010 - 08:25 am, by: Rich O'neil(Kiwiinaus)
As David said , the valve for releasing air from both the front rear is up inside the front guard . I would be very surprised if the air bag itself is leaking and if that was the case then it would leak all the time not just intermitingly , the air bag itself is almost never where the leak is , the top sealing ring or out of the the actuator shafts after the internal seal has failed is generally the problem . I think it's most probably just the age of the unit that is giving you problems everything is 20 years old and sometimes it just leaks past a seal or possibly the fitting into the side of the bag is giving problems . You need to remove the back cover in the boot so you can get at the rear valving on the right hand side and then undo the air line into the shock itself and check the double "O" Rings on the fitting that goes into the shock . It also wouldn't hurt to check the air lines into the two valves at the back either . Have you refreshed the silica gel in the filter/dryer that is mounted with the pump ? This is important as that is what keeps the water out of the air in the system and the release valve is on the bottom of that canister and can seize up if it gets water in it . I have had a similar problem with Warrens Cel and we replaced the strut , the problem went away for about 3 mths and has just returned and he has the exact same symptoms as you , mind you it was a 20 year old second hand strut that went in so it's probable that it has also failed and as the rears are linked then they both go down ? I myself have replaced the rear struts with brand new ones and my fronts are out of an early 96 model , the last Celsiors to still have the dual motor drive struts and I have had no such problems and others I know who have replaced their rear struts also have not had this problem either , this suggests it's a strut. The rear valve actuators do not operate seperatly like the front ones do , IE:the front left and right can go up and down independantly of each other , the rears go up and down as a pair so it's possible if one strut has failed both will go down , there is also a rear relief valve to prevent abnormal pressure build up inside the air tubes , what effect that will have I'm not sure ??? If you have no fault codes up then and/or your suspension height display is not flashing then the electrical part of the system is ok , I once left the right hand front strut motor drive unplugged and the sus light flashed , when I did a diagnostic it came up as such and I went straight to it . So to cut a long story longer it is most probably one of your struts itself playing up , this now leads a conundrum . Do you stick with air or go to springs or get some coilovers ? If you can afford it two brand new rear struts are the way to go , yes they are $900.00 odd each but look how long they lasted !! I'm also one of the few people who can comment on how good brand new air struts feel as I have fitted them where as most people only know how 15 year old air struts feel as that was how old the cars where when they first came in . I can tell you they are the best !! I have always plugged the air system as I think it's good value seeing how long it lasts , but now that second hand struts are not an option and the fact that new struts are $900.00 a corner , I can't justify that cost myself and the fact that it's not just the struts...the rest of the system is 20 years old as well . I just had a hassle with my pump not working , I eventually tracked it down to the stainless steel flapper valve spring that sits on a painted plate and over time wears through the paint and then the exposed steel rusts and a rust flake had caught under the flapper valve and of course then the valve wasn't shut so no air was being pumped , I had a spare pump that I could pull apart to work all this out [ and it had the same rust spot ] so I was able to fix it at no cost , but imagine of you had to put the car into a workshop and pay to have this done...if they discovered what the problem was at all !! And then back to the secondhand strut problem , a replacement pump is also 20 years old !! So maybe a quality set of made for the Celsior coilovers from Japan at about $1200.00 in your hands is the way to go and if I have anymore air probs then I will seriously be considering this option . As a note I have two brand new 97 model front struts on my shelf but by then they had gone to a single motor drive on top with only one actuator rod going down into the shock , if I can work out how to convert our dual motor drive to work it then we could buy late model air struts to fit for around the $300.00 mark and that would definitely be an option .
Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 12:34 pm, by: Ryan Seddon(Ahrjay)
Thanks for the info Rich.
Got some new developments. I drove to my girlfriends house on thursday night and the suspension went down but the next morning the pump wouldn't come on so I ran the car for a while to see what would happen, nothing. Left it for another day and same thing the pump would refuse to come on and it was stuck in normal mode so the front tires where at normal ride height and the back were deflated.
Being desperate I plugged in my height controller that I never got around to installing and set the back wheels to about 5 or 6 on the controller and the back wheels pumped up fine, though I could here hissing from the back rear passenger strut but it didn't go down and now it's parked back in the garage and sitting at normal height. That would indicate that it's just the rear passenger side strut is stuffed but why would it holds it height when parked? Why would the height controller get the pump going and not the normal buttons within the car?
I wanna buy a second hand strut and see if that fixes the problem and if it does I'll purchase 2 new rear ones and replace them. I'm going overseas soon and just need a quick fix until I get back. Anyone have a strut in reasonable condition?
Anyone know a suspension place in Melbourne that knows about these cars or is at least good with air suspension systems?
Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 03:13 pm, by: Ryan Seddon(Ahrjay)
I got the suspension checked out on the weekend and the rear passenger strut is rooted has a massive gash in it. The only reason it was staying up sometimes and deflating others was it was sealing itself when it got to a certain height.
Now the suspension isn't going up at all so I've decided to not bother replacing the air struts and go for standard suspension. I don't particularly care for adjustable coilovers and was wondering if anyone has replaced their suspension with the Coil Spring conversion kit from arnotts?
Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 04:40 pm, by: Rich O'neil(Kiwiinaus)
I would be cautious with the Arnott units as having had a set of their new units that failed in the dampening and the deceit they have with the spud for the TEMS that actually does nothing . Tein comfort coilovers are what I will be putting on my car , they are stiffer than your normal spring strut units but only a little bit , the spring is only about 7 inches long in place of the genuine's 9 inches and no where near harsh like the cheap D2's or G4's and such like , they are also built specifically for the Celsior/LS as well . With exchange rate and freight they will end costing somewhere between $1000 and $1200.00 in your hand , there is a set on Yahoo at the moment which have done only 13,000 K's for 79000 Yen which is $910.00 in Aus money and allow $300.00 for freight , seems like a pretty good deal to me , $300 a corner is my kind of price !!
Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 05:01 pm, by: Ryan Seddon(Ahrjay)
Thanks Rich, are you referring to Arnotts air struts or the coil spring replacements? Did they fail in a car you had?
I just found and got in contact with David at lextreme.com who is selling brand new megan coilovers http://www.lextreme.com/Lexus-SC400-LS400-Coil-Overs-Megan.html for $900 US and he said he can start shipping at the end of April to Aus for $300 shipping.
Only issue is I will be overseas then and need to get them fixed asap the Arnotts coil springs can ship them over within 3-5 days for the about $1000 Aus landed which sounds good has anyone else actually installed these?
Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 06:43 pm, by: Rich O'neil(Kiwiinaus)
I was referring to air struts I bought about 4 years ago , they lasted about 18 mths before the dampening went , but more importantly the use a dummy brass spud that your TEMS drive hooks up to but it does nothing !! If you disassemble the shock it turns out to be just a spud that turns and does nothing !! You would never know if you didn't take the shock apart , the only reason to do it like they have is to deceive . That is what puts me off any of their other products . Those Megan units look quite good , the springs though are still at least an inch shorter than those on the Tein's , better than those really short type of coil overs but not as good as the Teins , still it's easy to change springs and relatively cheap as well . Go onto yahoo Japan and type UCF11 Tein in the search box and you will see the pic's .
Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 01:37 pm, by: David Barnes(Toyota_celsior)
My advice is to just rid the airbags altogether, they are forever problematic. Sure they give a nice ride on a nice road, but something with bumps I would far prefer a set of coils anyday. Mind you my airbags shocks dont have the best dampening. But they never do, more so if you have a lowered celsior.
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