| Author |
Message |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 34
Reg: 12-2009
|
Hey Andrew,
Do you have accurate Cd info for the various stock body Soarer configs?
I have searched online but the numbers vary from 0.29 to 0.33.
Obviously the one I'm really after is with the lip and boot spoiler.
Cheers,
Rob |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 37
Reg: 12-2009
|
G'day Peter,
For what it's worth, after I left the battery disconnected for three days, the car initially ran like a pig as it relearnt.
When I disconnected for 30 minutes or so earlier, that didn't happen. It obviously takes longer for everything to discharge.
No suspension movement however so out comes the compressor.
Thanks again,
Rob |
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car
Posts: 1875
Reg: 04-2006
|
Rob,
the stock soarer steelies are 16x6.5. I have some on my trailer!
As has already been posted there are a few cars with the same PCD to help with the steel rims. AU serII falcon has same stud pattern and similar offset rims as the soarer. |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 48
Reg: 12-2009
|
Thanks Ben,
Appreciate the info.
Cheers,
Rob |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 50
Reg: 12-2009
|
I finally found factory Cd specs for the SC400 in the US, with boot spoiler .31 and without .32.
Still looking for a genuine number for boot spoiler and front lip if anyone has any factory info with it included.
Cheers,
Rob |
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NSW
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car
Posts: 1876
Reg: 04-2006
|
Those are the same numbers I have heard, but never from an official source. |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 51
Reg: 12-2009
|
ben,
I got those from a US Lexus document scan but they never got the lip spoiler.
Obviously with the spoiler on and the external mirrors removed and the suspension way down I will be under the .31 figure but no idea by how much.
Cheers,
Rob |
Joe Russell
DieHard
Manawatu
4.0 V8 GT-L (UZZ31)
Posts: 501
Reg: 10-2008
|
Hi Rob,
Check this thread out:
http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/283/284241.html?1241854550
also, do you know how to work out Cd? The figures given by Lexus/toyota are accurate as far as I can work out, and include frontal area.
Cool thread man, looking forward to this  |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 58
Reg: 12-2009
|
Interesting thread Joe,
Thanks for the link. The Cd figures I got came from US SC400 factory literature and I believe them. Sadly the US never had the front air dam and I've found nothing for one equipped with same. I will be running the air dam, removing the outside mirrors and am required to remove the wipers both front and rear.
A couple of comments RE that thread, the base of the windscreen is definitely an area of high pressure, this was the reason for the rear facing bonnet scoop on the SLR and A9X Toranas. Under the bonnet is a low pressure area, air is forced over the bonnet and around the sides, what little that makes it's way under the car has some venturi effect assisting with cooling.
Toyota appears to have spent a lot of time with the aero for the Soarer, check out those seals between the bonnet and the grill/headlights. They are right at the lip and work well.
The only way I am aware of to work out Cd without a wind tunnel is by using the coast down test. Rather than me going into a lengthy explanation, just Google Coast Down test or Roll Down Test.
Be aware too that testing the same car in different wind tunnels can give different results. So if you were to make changes, you should recheck in the same tunnel each time.
In the end it doesn't matter too much for my application as it is what it is, my reason for wanting a ballpark figure was to calculate the hp required to a) Break the current record b) break the magic 200mph (320kph)barrier.
The car now has extremely low coils in it and I am just doing my sums/research for the engine. I need to come up with a plan for logical progression over several years, as much to keep costs down as to know where I am headed.
Shortly the stripout & sell off will happen and I'll start fabricating the cage.
Thanks for the interest,
Rob |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3181
Reg: 07-2005
|
Rob, for a few hp you could drop the idle speed controller water circulation and throttle body coolant circulation just to cool the intake charge a little. Phonelic spacers aren't a bad idea, either.
It's also pretty cheap to get some cams welded and ground up. About half the cost of billet items and just as effective. A high ramp, reasonable profile is worth 30-50hp no problem, and will easily extend power another 1500rpm by themselves.
You could also remove the heads and get a head shop to enlarge and recut the valve seats for a narrower seat as well as back cut valves. Then deck the head as much as possible. That should net a cost effective 20+ hp.
If you were then to retain the standard 'plenum' and make up some replacement straight runners to the intake ports - there's another 20hp or more from intake harmonics tuning.
Overall it's not that difficult to put out 400hp if you're willing to accept that there's a bit more labour cost involved doing it cheaply.
If you ever do engine management, i'm happy to fit and tune for next to nothing if it means you break the record! |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 79
Reg: 12-2009
|
Hello Cihan,
I appreciate the offer and the information. I have a valve grinder and a vibro seat grinder and had intended to do pretty much as you suggested there.
I think I have no choice RE engine management, the stock ECU is too restrictive, I let the one Mines I could have bought slip through my fingers and believe Harry Lemmens isn't modding any more.
At the moment I am very much at the information and planning stage. It's my intention to start stripping the car next week and selling off what I don't want/need, then get stuck into the cage after some research at speed week this year.
I need to formulate an ongoing plan for the engine so as to minimise wasted time/money/effort.
It's my intention to run the auto, at least for the first year if possible, to minimise my costs. I would also like to keep the traction control but will reserve that decision until later.
If you're keen to tune I'm keen to have the help. The salt is a great leveller and traction is less than asphalt though the % varies with the moisture content. I believe the generally used factor is 0.8.
I won't be happy just beating the record, I want to lift it substantially though am not gullible enough to believe I can do that on the first time out. Based on the calculator at the bottom of this page, 400hp should be good for 195mph. Despite it saying it's a reference for Bonneville, I believe this is for 100% traction and real world for 200mph will be closer to 650hp.
I use 0.3 for Cd and 21.5' frontal area.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/aerohpcalc.html
Cheers,
Rob |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3183
Reg: 07-2005
|
Rob,
The stock ECU is fine if you strip it down a little. No need to spend big on replacement stock ECU's, they won't help you when it needs tuning for 400hp+ and they won't allow you to free up the intake tract effectively.
If you can pick up an emanage ultimate second hand with a harness for $500-$700, that's a winner.
At 300hp there's over 1 inch of vac wasted via restriction pre-plenum using the standard AFM and throttle body. At a potential 400hp thats a major restriction.
Using the ultimate you could remove the air flow meter and drop a 3.5inch pipe in its place. Im sure with a cut and weld you could squeeze a 10-20% larger throttle body on there with no problem (22-50% greater flow capacity).
That piggyback will also take care of the speed and rev limits.
If you're using the auto you'll be in 4th most of the way so its easy to wire up a gear selector switch and a lockup engage switch. The problem is that 4th gear won't take 400hp for long 
Looking forward to it. |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 80
Reg: 12-2009
|
G'day Cihan,
I had a bit of a surf around the net. It seems second hand Emanage Ultimates abound in the US but the prices vary widely.
I have much to learn RE engine electronics. When I did my trade the only electronics we saw were the blue motor Holden distributor modules and despite understanding the principles... well, you get the idea. I branched off to earth moving and ag machinery then later quit the trade.
Gear selection wise I must have reverse lockout but can't see that being an issue.
As long as the trans can hold out for 5 to 10 runs at full throttle for five or six miles at a time it'll do. Two miles only for the first two license passes (125mph and 150mph).
It's probably best I give you a ring one day and we have a chat about where I'm headed and what is/isn't legal for the class. As an example, I will be running open headers but they must not exit under the body and must not point toward the salt/ground.
Cheers,
Rob |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3188
Reg: 07-2005
|
Sure thing Rob.
There are a few other management options out there for cheap, ie the haltech sprint 500 - which is about $1050 for a complete unit and will allow the ignition system to be changed later on for example. Easy to wire in and great for a lean land speed car. |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 81
Reg: 12-2009
|
G'day Cihan,
If I go for a stand alone it'll not be a cheapy. I want to future proof the build wherever I can. A decent ECU should also allow me to log various inputs too. As an example, I have been thinking of using the air suspension position sensors to log suspension movement which will give me a good idea of what the car is doing at speed.
I bought a fire suit that's compliant for a forced induction car, the fire system will comply for a forced induction car and the cage will be suitable for a 200 plus mph vehicle.
A little extra time or money now will save a lot should I switch classes at a later date. Many US guys and a couple of Aussies run more than one class/engine.
Having said that, I do want to keep the initial costs down where I am able and where it doesn't represent false economy. From what I have read the Emanage Ultimate will be saleable should I choose to move up to a stand alone ECU at a later date. Meanwhile I'll just keep an eye out for something suitable whilst I work on the rest of the car.
Cheers,
Rob |
Cihan Aday
Moderator
etuner.com.au
JZZ30
Posts: 3192
Reg: 07-2005
|
Fair call Rob.
The ultimate will be easy to sell when you need to upgrade to something more substantial, plenty for 400hp with 'mild' work and a set of injectors.
Sounds like you need a high end Motec with GPS ! |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 82
Reg: 12-2009
|
Cihan Aday wrote on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 09:36 pm:Sounds like you need a high end motec with GPS
What I need is a money tree, all else will follow in good stead 
A plan is formulating and I need to get my butt into gear if it's going to come together by March 2011.
Cheers,
Rob |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 84
Reg: 12-2009
|
Had an Emanage Ultimate turned up in today's mail.
I shelled out a meagre $US200 for the unit and universal harness including shipping with a guarantee that it works.
I'm keen to get it hooked up but will probably wait until the cage is done.
Cheers,
Rob |
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged
Posts: 1940
Reg: 08-2005
|
nice well done. interested to see some pics of the cage install |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 85
Reg: 12-2009
|
Thanks Aaron,
At the moment it's cage design.
Speed week is next week and I will be looking hard at what others have done before finalising my design.
In the mean time, here's one that I have looked over and like.
http://www.possumbourne.co.nz/images/products/cage1.jpg
Cheers,
Rob |
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged
Posts: 1944
Reg: 08-2005
|
thats alot of cage
cusco do one aswell but the front isnt as strong maybe you could adapt the rear cusco and custom make the front cage so goes through the dash |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 86
Reg: 12-2009
|
Thanks Aaron,
The bar work is intended to protect me should the worst happen. It will also be braced to the body at the A and B pillars. The worst being loss of traction, the car goes sideways, creates lift, gets airborne and from there, you're along for the ride.
Sadly one driver lost his life at Bonneville last year from just such an event despite the car having been campaigned for years safely.
I had looked into a Cusco cage after seeing one for sale a while ago, they are chrome moly which would require me buying a TIG to add to it. I am unsure if the tube they use complies with our standard as ours are more stringent than CAMs or ANDRA specs. I think the Cusco 8 point one also runs to the parcel shelf whereas mine will run to the rear suspension towers.
Weight isn't an issue in land speed so I will be using 1 3/4" (44.45mm) 0.120" (3mm) wall mild steel per the rule book. Those are the minimum specs and I would like to go with a thicker wall (0.150" / 3.75mm) and seamless tube but cannot find any to date in Sydney.
Cheers,
Rob |
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged
Posts: 1947
Reg: 08-2005
|
oh ok no worries thought maybe if you could get half a cage you like may decrease costs but still be safe. but still interested in pics |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 87
Reg: 12-2009
|
No worries Aaron,
Don't be put off, I appreciate the thought mate.
Cheers,
Rob |
Aaron Casey
Goo Roo
nsw
'94 jzz30 gttl, 2 mini's one supercharged
Posts: 1949
Reg: 08-2005
|
haha no worries im not put off. all good. cant wait to see this thing in its "race trim" on the flats make sure in the rear centre bar you weld a mount for a camera to video your runs haha |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 90
Reg: 12-2009
|
G'day Aaron,
I'm figuring on more than one camera but haven't seen the cost yet. Apparently there's one around that has a central controller and a couple of cameras.
Cheers,
Rob |
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car
Posts: 1974
Reg: 04-2006
|
Rob, I am investigating cages at the moment as well. I am having the devils own time trying to find someone who a. has the skills and b. has the time to take the job on.
I am looking at some options including copying other cages such as the cusco but as a CAMS approved weld in using CDS steel and straight front legs.
Depending on how different your regs are to CAMS we might be able to get a deal on two...? |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 92
Reg: 12-2009
|
G'day Ben,
I'm assuming your car is with you in NT? There's a local guy at Windsor that can/will do them.
I intend to do my own design, fab and fit. I want to tie in both the front and rear suspension towers and use both a Petty bar and a Larry bar.
I'm not sure our "design" differs from CAMS but the tube spec is definitely heavier.
Cheers,
Rob |
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
NT
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car
Posts: 1977
Reg: 04-2006
|
Yeah, car is in NT. If I was still in NSW I would just tow it to a reputable chassis/cage builder and be done with it. |
Robert Cranfield
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited (UZZ31)
Posts: 93
Reg: 12-2009
|
No worries Ben,
Good luck in your search then. I can't imagine there's too much call for cages up there.
Cheers,
Rob |
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