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Harvey Riddle
Newbie
Queensland
V8 GT

Posts: 1
Reg: 05-2012

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 10:57 am, by:  Harvey Riddle (Hifimoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Guys,
I have had my V8 GT for two months now. Built May 92 with 190k and in almost original condition. I am at my wits end, I have been trying to understand what has happened to the Suspension. The problem is that the car rides like a cart, it is so stiff. Thinking the Shocks were partially seized, I replaced them all with KYB's, the Tokico's that came out all had dead spots. The new Shocks stopped the rear from bouncing around, but made the front even stiffer. Everything looked original, in good condition and untouched, the front Coils are black with two blue paint patches and the rears have two yellow/orange paint patches. The front height is 13mm lower (acceptable sag?) than spec and the rear is 30mm lower (too much sag or lowered?). I have searched the InterNet for info on Spring colour codes without any relevant success, and my Toyota parts man can't help. I have to push down very hard to get the rear or front to move. Every one tells me that the V8s ride so soft. What do I do, spend $725 on new original Springs or park the car and live in hope that someone somewhere has a set of original height springs they don't want. Sorry about the rant.
Scott Vim
TryHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 243
Reg: 12-2010

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 11:06 am, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I prefer a stiff ride
Jason Mankowski
Tinkerer
NSW
TT

Posts: 9
Reg: 05-2012

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 11:11 am, by:  Jason Mankowski (7dska1jzgte) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have just got onto a set of fortune coil overs by philb enterprises....give him a call man or facebook him...He will sort you out.
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI

Posts: 1930
Reg: 03-2007

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 01:23 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Harvey, they ride soft when they have factory air suspension.
Harvey Riddle
Newbie
Queensland
V8 GT

Posts: 2
Reg: 05-2012

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 02:15 pm, by:  Harvey Riddle (Hifimoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Dave, I have driven a UZZ31 which was rather floaty, but I have heard that UZZ30s are also soft riding. Can anyone quantify the ride quality of a UZZ30 with original Springs. How easy is it to push down on the front and rear. Can anyone tell me the colour codes on their original V8 Springs. My front Springs are 15.09mm thick, and the rears 12.32mm, and black.
Alistair Moorby
TryHard
VIC
soarer TT

Posts: 279
Reg: 12-2006

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 03:45 pm, by:  Alistair Moorby (Aldmo87) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Harvey,

I am suffering from a similiar problem, I have a JZZ30 and it is very firm. Going over a bump is very harsh.

It handles great on a nice smooth flat road but as you know the average road is far from this.

Do yourself a favour and go down to your local pedders store for a $14 28 point check.

My local store didn't even charge me for the check.

My car also has about 30mm sag at the rear springs.

I have attached my check/quote, they have quoted me $235 to replace the rear springs and $87 to replace the rear bump stops (these are for when the shocks are compressed to the max)

My opinion is that if you have replaced your shocks with brand new ones then the next step is to change the springs, I can't imagine what the problem would be if those two items have been changed.

Someone suggested to me that the problem was that I was running 18" wheels, what size wheels are you using?

application/pdfUpload
Pedders quote edited.pdf (54.9 k)
Harvey Riddle
Newbie
Queensland
V8 GT

Posts: 3
Reg: 05-2012

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 05:57 pm, by:  Harvey Riddle (Hifimoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice looking car Alistair, thank you for the Pedder's info, I have thought about getting the $14 assessment. Can you measure accurately the distance from the centre of the Wheels up to the inside lip (not the flat part) of the plastic trim of the Guard. I would like to compare our measurements. my front distance is 376mm and the rear is 352. I estimate the front should be 390mm and the rear 380mm. Are your Suspensions original. Has your car had a hard life?

The Toyota part numbers for Springs for the 1992 cars are:

Spring Front
48131-24400 L UZZ30-ACPVK GT, JZZ30-ACPVZ GTT
48131-24410 R UZZ30-ACPVK GT, JZZ30-ACPVZ GTT
48131-24410 L JZZ30-ACPZZ-GTTL
48131-24420 R JZZ30-ACPZZ-GTTL
48131-24390 L UZZ30L-ACPZKA SC400
48131-24340 R UZZ30L-ACPZKA SC400

Spring Rear
48231-24140 L+R JZZ30-ACPVZ GTT
48231-24160 L+R UZZ30-ACPVK GT
48231-24150 L+R JZZ30-ACPZZ GTTL
48231-24180 L+R UZZ30L-ACPZKA SC400

The interesting thing is that the JZZ30 GTT and the UZZ30 GT share the same front Springs, borrowing their right Spring from the JZZ30 GTTL left Spring. All the rears are unique.

Unfortunately King Springs don't have standard height Springs for the ZZ30'S only a low version, which they tell me will give a front Hub to Guard distance of 360mm and a rear distance of 350mm. As my front distance is currently 376mm, it should be about 390mm which would then tally with the approximate drop a King low Spring would give. I have tried 18 inch Rims with 245-45 Tyres which transform the car, and almost make the terrible ride bearable, providing I don't go through gutters too fast, but they wouldn't work with an extra loss of 16mm at the front with the King low Spring. The original 15 x 6.5inch Rims with 205-65 Tyres feel like crap.
Brett Harrison
DieHard
QLD
JZZ30

Posts: 830
Reg: 09-2005

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 - 07:24 pm, by:  Brett Harrison (Bretto) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

depends on what you call 'stiff', but my UZZ30 with all new KYB's is pretty firm, std springs, 17 inch rims with Kumho ecsta tyres. Handles very well, but wouldn't go as far to say uncomfortable, on the wrong road maybe a tad.
Harvey Riddle
Newbie
Queensland
V8 GT

Posts: 4
Reg: 05-2012

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Friday, May 25, 2012 - 08:44 am, by:  Harvey Riddle (Hifimoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brett, thank you for your info. Can you accurately measure the Wheel centre up to the Guard, and how easy is it to push down on the front and rear of your car. Thanks.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12336
Reg: 11-2004

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Friday, May 25, 2012 - 09:48 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What chance the shocks are stiff?
Harvey Riddle
Newbie
Queensland
V8 GT

Posts: 5
Reg: 05-2012

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Friday, May 25, 2012 - 07:21 pm, by:  Harvey Riddle (Hifimoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peter, I have noticed after fitting the new front shocks the Car now jiggles along the road, as if the Shock Spring combination is too strong to soak up small undulations.

When I researched the standard KYBs (341162 and 341161), a customer on Amazon said "For the first day or two, they rode a bit firmly, but then they smoothed right out to the point where I think they're smoother than the shocks they replaced. Most aftermarket shocks are significantly firmer than the OEM shocks they're designed to replace. In almost every case, you will end up with a much stiffer ride. That's a really good thing for cornering and performance driving, less so for day-to-day driving and/or commuting. This KYB is one of the very few shocks/struts out there that will won't make your car ride more firmly than it did originally, so choose wisely."

My Tyre Shop guy told me they fit KYBs all the time. So I felt confident in ordering. But due to the pathetic Australian WebSite (as is usually the case with Global companies) and my negligence in not checking KYB.com, I would have found the following FAQ:

"What is the difference between original equipment KYB and the aftermarket KYB components?
Original equipment KYB shock and struts are designed to the OE manufacture’s specifications. Although built on the same assembly lines, the aftermarket KYB products are calibrated to compensate for worn suspension components to help restore the vehicle’s original handling and control characteristics."

Apart from that statement making no sense to me, I would have been forwarned that the aftermarket Shock is indeed stiffer. This has been confirmed by a Soarer Guru who told me that the Shocks could take up to 12 months before they become softer. Also a Spring manufacturer told me that my KYBs will be stiffer. So I actually have two problems, a generally terrible ride quality, coupled with very annoying jiggling. Which is why I am trying to identify my Springs. I have even considered refitting my original Shocks. The thing that pisses me off is the fact that my immaculate very original LS400 of exactly the same age and distance travelled as my Soarer, rides beautifully, is so sharp and certainly does not require me to replace Springs or Shocks, not only that, my Daughter's LS400 of the same age but with 382,000 kilometers is so smooth and quite sharp.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12341
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 11:54 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Harvey, one of the SA crew fitted new after market shocks and claimed they were smoother than the ones he replaced. A drive comparison with my 30 shows his car is smoother despite my shocks being 21 years old.

I remember when I first got the car and has the Pedders $14 test done, they were surprised at how stiff the shockers were more so the fronts.

Perhaps the valves close up over years and restrict oil flow hence getting firmer?

I always thought old shocks got sloppy, but mine still aren't.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12342
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 11:57 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a thought. Any chance it has plastic control arm bushes?
Brett Harrison
DieHard
QLD
JZZ30

Posts: 831
Reg: 09-2005

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Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 09:24 pm, by:  Brett Harrison (Bretto) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Harvey, it is very stiff when you push down, front and rear.
It is actually firmer riding, than my tt with kings springs and bilsteins. The ride has toned down a tad, the first few weeks were a bit firm 'maybe'. And sometimes when they are cold, need warming up just like the Bilsteins. But absolutely no complaints here, I'm still blown away by the handling of the 30 with just new shocks. Apologies but haven't had a chance to measure it up.

Brett
Alistair Moorby
TryHard
VIC
soarer TT

Posts: 281
Reg: 12-2006

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 - 11:43 am, by:  Alistair Moorby (Aldmo87) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Harvey OEM replacement shocks and springs are all the same for every modem except the uzz32, so don't worry about what springs to get, the genuine toyota ones may not even fit your new KYB shocks.

From memory the rear springs on a TT are tapered down at the back to fit the TEMS strut.

Anyway, Let's look at what I have done

Shocks - Not yet done, still using original TEMS, Pedders reported they are firm and have not gotten sloppy, I suspect they are too firm and will replace, $470/set ($940 all up) fitted at Pedders, I will get another price as I think that's too high... what did you pay to get your's fitted?
Springs - Pedders reported they have sagged, and need to be changed, about $235 per set so $470 all up fitted, I'm happy with this price.
Lower Control arms - I had my aftermarket polyurethane bushes swapped out for rubber ones (branz).
Lower Control arms - Still rocking the polyurethane ones
Upper control arms - I replaced my fronts with brand new ones with rubber bushes.
Steering rack bushes- I had mine replaced with new polyurethane ones, as I could not find rubber ones and poly's had to be better than the 21 year old worn out ones. )$50 on eBay

I will measure up my sag today and tell you what I get.
Harvey Riddle
Tinkerer
Queensland
V8 GT

Posts: 6
Reg: 05-2012

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Tuesday, May 29, 2012 - 07:38 am, by:  Harvey Riddle (Hifimoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peter, yes there are new SuperPro Bushes fitted to the front lower Control Arms rear mounts. They contribute harshness and creak all the time, which is why they are coming out today, to be replaced with Branz solid Bushes. Which I am worried about because if Toyota fitted the slotted type, which may account for early failures, and the other aftermarket brand having early failures reported by some, then were these Bushes designed to offset the harshness in the Coil Sprung Soarers? The solid Bush, I would expect to be stronger, last longer, but not so 'shock absorbing', but way better than plastic. Plastic Bushes can have stiction, which requires a greater force to move the Suspension, to overcome the binding of the Bush. I have been told the Branz Bushes will make a huge difference, we will see.

Brett, thank you for testing and information, sounds like we have similar ride quality. I am a little confused, do you have a JZZ30 or a UZZ30? I seem to have noticed my ride quality improves after a long drive, and I suspected the Shock Absorbers were warming and freeing up. What are the KYB part numbers of your Shocks? I know this is not easy to answer without taking off Wheels, but what are the colour codes of your front and rear Springs (I am desperate to get a match from someone with my rears), I have now discovered my front Springs have a third colour above the two blue patches, blue on the right and red on the left. What width and offset are your Rims, and what are your Tyre sizes. I don't know why these beautiful cars need to ride so poorly. What were they trying to achieve in the Coil sprung cars, mostly lateral motion?

Alistair, don't you want to keep the functionality of your TEMS. Can you tell the difference between the two modes? I paid $125 for a KYB 341162 rear, and $130 for a KYB 341161 front and fitted them myself, be warned, I am not happy with the lower mount of the 341161, it is much narrower than the original and is distorting too much. Failing to find another Spring manufacturer that has standard heights at a reasonable price, $189 per pair plus $20 freight for two pair, and is as courteous as Aurora Springs at IndustrialSprings.com.au, and subject to confirmation of specs, if I fit new Springs, it will be theirs. Bring your new Shocks and Springs to me, I will fit them for you for free.
Alistair Moorby
TryHard
VIC
soarer TT

Posts: 293
Reg: 12-2006

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Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 09:36 pm, by:  Alistair Moorby (Aldmo87) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Harvey, I removed my spare tyre and notices the ride comfort improved quite a lot. My guess is my rear springs are so sagged that it's riding up against the bump stops (which according to pedders have perished)

I am going to replace my rear springs with genuine Toyota TEMS springs for around $200 for a pair. I would rather go with the Toyota ones as I know they will fit the TEMS shocks (which I believe require a different shape spring to normal).

As for the TEMS on my car, I can't tell the difference with it being on/off, maybe after I fit the new springs it will improve.

Did you pay $125 and $130 per shock or per pair of shocks? Where did you get them from?

What do you mean by narrower than the original?
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12351
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 08:18 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you can't tell the difference with TEMS on/off then the shocks are pretty shagged.
Blake Gloyn
DieHard
manawatu
soarer JZZ30 TT

Posts: 802
Reg: 02-2006

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Wednesday, June 06, 2012 - 03:00 am, by:  Blake Gloyn (Blakenz) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how can a TT owner try ON/OFF , as i'm pretty sure only the V8 cars came with a switch? I've never seen a TEMS switch in a TEMS equipped JZZ30.
Alistair Moorby
TryHard
VIC
soarer TT

Posts: 297
Reg: 12-2006

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Wednesday, June 06, 2012 - 06:39 am, by:  Alistair Moorby (Aldmo87) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Selecting the PWR ECT switch stiffens up the suspension, that or the track day jumper.
Alistair David
TryHard
VIC
soarer TT

Posts: 341
Reg: 12-2006

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Thursday, June 28, 2012 - 01:22 pm, by:  Alistair David (Aldmo87) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have just ordered a full set of Aurora Springs at Standard height, they offer lowered and raised as well.

Total cost $397 delivered.

Bit more expensive than Lowered King Springs, but I don't really want lowered ones.

I'll let you know how they go once I get them fitted.

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