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Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 12:07 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, some of you (or most of you) know my stock CT12s are close to dying now (can't see anything behind me, so much smoke, makes grinding noises too haha), so been looking around at what I can do about it.

I've found a second hand TD06 turbo, about 2 or 3 years old, in very good condition with no shaft play at all. I can buy it for $600ish (mates rates hehe). My cousin has same turbo on his JZA70 supra, except on the M engine, and it does well over 300rwhp with a bit of boost and an exhaust. It works very well for him anyway.

Now my question is, is it going to be a good turbo for a 1J??? Has anyone bolted it on a 1J before? Any issues? etc... I realise I will need custom dumps, custom manifold, modify the intercooler piping and oil lines etc. Anyone know how much that may cost roughly?? Who can fabricate this?? It also comes already with a massive waste gate attached, not sure if I should plumb it back into exhaust or not. Will stock exhaust handle this turbo for now? I'd appreciate your help guys!!

P.S. I think the modification bug will set in after this haha
Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 12:25 am, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 7M engine is 3 litres from memory. Will always get a bit more lag on a 2.5 than a 3.0 litre.
James Johnson
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 09:41 am, by:  James Johnson (Jamesy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats what i have running on my car at the moment! and i feel almost no lag. hits full boost at about 2500rpm!

I had to get the dump pipe and intake pipe custom made. but my kit came with the Greddy manafold and Greddy 42mm wastegate.

Getting it tuned next week so i can give you a power figure from my setup soon.
Chris Davey
DieHard
QLD
Corona

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 09:46 am, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TD06 come in different sizes. My mate has the TD06-20g. I don't know what power it makes because he is a jelly dick and hasn't dynoed or raced but it doesn't have much lag at all compared to my ta45s setup.

I would say to get a nice 6boost manifold made up but it depends on what you want to do. As the TD06 has a triangle flange, if you want to upgrade you would need a new flange anyway.

You will need
dump pipe
exhaust manifold
oil lines
inlet pipe

bigger injectors
something to tune with

and probably other stuff.

Custom manifold will be the most expensive bit unless you can get an ebay one and get someone to weld on a trust flange.

Go for it :-)
James Johnson
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 09:50 am, by:  James Johnson (Jamesy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeh just to clarify mine is a TD06-20G. the td06-25G would be better to get if you can.
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 11:26 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So turbo will work good then, not much extra lag, that's great. I'm not sure which TD06 it is, will have to find out...

Hey James, did you put the turbo in yourself, or was it previous owner's? How much did it cost you to put it in?
I rang up a few places and been told it's not cheap at all. Apparently I will also need a new computer, better fuel pump, bigger injectors and perhaps even a new fuel rail... without which it won't run properly I was told. One of the quotes I got was almost 12 grand!! Is that correct, will I really need all that extra stuff to make it work? I presume the stock intercooler won't handle the flow neither... I'm not planning to run crazy 20 psi on it, just 7-10 psi and I'll be happy.
Chris Davey
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Corona

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 12:01 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To physically fit a turbo is not hard at all.

You will need to take it somewhere to get the dump pipe connected to exhaust though.

I would just get a cheap cooler and some pipes made. Should get that done for $600-700 I would say.

My mate who runs the TD06-20g just has stock ecu with safc and stock injectors. I don't think it is a great idea as he has run up to 26psi (which would most likely be 100% duty cycle).

To take full advantage of the turbo you will need something to tune it. I think the emanage blue is a good option or the power mod ecu.

I would whack in some 440's. They will be good for all the power the turbo can make.

Upgrading fuel pump is a good idea as the pump will be old anyway. Walbro 255 or bosch 040 intank is easiest. Both good for around 300rwkw or a tad more.

I BET you that you will not be happy on 7-10psi. No point in going single if you only want to run that much boost!
Paul Brockbank
DieHard
WA
Soarer TT

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 12:28 pm, by:  Paul Brockbank (Brockas) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daniel, my advice is this is what you NEED to buy:

S-AFC + S-ITC OR E-Manage ($600 or $1000)
550cc USDM Supra Injectors ($350)
Bosch 040 Fuel Pump ($280)
FMIC kit ($450)
Braided oil and water lines ($360)
China manifold ($350) if you don't already have one. The cheapest option you have is buying one of these then getting someone to weld on a triangular flange for the TD06.

You DO NOT need to change the fuel rail to a top feed arrangement, as you can get big enough side feed injectors cheap. Only thing you can't do with side-feed injectors is up the rail pressure, which you wont need to do anyways unless you're chasing big power figures.

Then you need it all fitted, not really that hard, but you'd still need a mate who knows what they're doing to help you. Me and my mate will be taking the CT12's off and mounting the big single before I take it to x-speed to get them to do the custom fabrication work.

You will need at least:
Sonic oil drain
Triangular gasket
Manifold stud kit
4 bolt flange and gasket

All that wont add up to much more than $150.


Now for the custom stuff:
dump pipe from turbo to cat
inlet pipe from compressor inlet to air filter
outlet pipe from compressor outlet to FMIC piping
screamer pipe

According to x-speed, all that fabrication will take Andre at least 2-3 days.
You're looking at about $2000 or a little more for all that.
I checked at Genie Exhaust, they weren't willing to match that price. Andre also boast some of the best welding work in Perth. If you've ever seen his work, you can barely see where it's been welded.


7-10psi wouldn't even be in that turbo's (25g) efficiency range. You would make bugger all power, probably less than your stockers are making at 12psi.

You'd want to run at least 1bar (14.7psi) and once the power bug hits you, you'll want to run a little more.

The tune will raise the fuel cut to about 16psi, if you want to run any more than this you will have to get a Fuel Cut Defender ($50).
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 12:31 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only reason I'm thinking of buying this turbo is because my stock ones are close to dying and need to replace them with something. Normally I'd be looking at second hand $450 CT12s (or those cheap brand new china spec ones), but at 600 bux for this turbo I figured I might just as well go for that option. I'm happy with stock performance (obviously wouldn't mind a faster car but so far I don't mind the way it performs) I might put on extra mods maybe later down the line though. If I really have to get SAFC at this stage then I will, it ain't that expensive. But paying a few grand for a computer at this stage I would rather avoid.
Will there be any bad consequences mechanically wise if I run stock boost with stock injectors, stock fuel pump, and maybe just with SAFC (if necessary) for now just to get by?

Basically at the moment I want my car to drive without hassles, and so far as long as it runs the same as it is now I'd be happy. So I need to know if it can just be bolted on with minimum mods necessary... I don't have to have 300hp right now, maybe a bit later :-)
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 12:57 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Paul. So this whole deal is going to cost me at least 3K to put it in (pipes, SAFC, bits and pieces), plus the $600 turbo. I got some mates that know what they're doing that can help me put it in so no worries there. Hmmmm, I know Xspeed does good job, but damn that's pricey

Even though I appreciate the skill and effort it takes, at the moment I honestly wouldn't care that much about how the welds on my dump pipe would look, as long as the pipe fits alright, if say I can save a grand or so somewhere else. (My budget's a bit tight right now you see, recently I've moved from a 2 bed unit to a 4x2 house, and it's absolutely empty, need to spend like 30K in the next few weeks on furniture, new pergola and other crap for the house, which kind of takes priority ) Would you know anyone that can fabricate those pipes a bit cheaper than that?
Chris Davey
DieHard
QLD
Corona

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:01 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think $2k for those pipes is a bit excessive.

I bought my turbo kit for $2400 and that came with the stainless 4" dump pipe and 4" intake with filter.

screamer for $100
and cooler pipe is about the same
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:14 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, I need to look around at better quotes then. I wouldn't mind paying a grand preferrably or a bit more, anything up to 1500 for those pipes is the max. Anymore I think I'll give up at this stage :-(
Shane Ilich
Goo Roo
W.A.
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:22 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If your budget's a bit tight right now, Daniel, then a single turbo's not the answer. The fact that the single is relatively "cheap" at $600 is offset by the fact that you are looking at a minimum of $2k to get the peripherals involved in fitting it. We're talking oil lines, new cooler, cooler piping, BOV, boost controller, etc. Have a look at either my list of mods, or the thread I did up involving my conversion. I too was on a budget, but I still spent close to probably $3.5k on the turbo conversion side of things (including a brand new turbo).

Yes, you WILL need things like a new fuel pump, injectors, and some sort of tuning computer. I'll be selling my 440' shortly, if you're after them.

Running a single turbo at anything less than say 15psi would be relatively pointless - as Paul has said, it would be well below its efficiency range.

Go and research the turbo you're looking at buying, its flow rates etc, and then consider the other factors involved - doing a single conversion half-arsed will create more hassles than it will ever be worth.
Marc Vipond
TryHard
Queensland
Soarer TT JZZ30

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:23 pm, by:  Marc Vipond (04awe) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daniel have at least 5 large sitting around if you want to do this conversion properly. You can cheap out everywhere if you choose, however I cannot reccommend this. I've always been told your car can be only two of the following three things: CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE. If you have any dramas give me a yell and I'm sure I'll be able to answer most of your questions as I have almost finished my single conversion.

Rough Price Guide

Turbo $600
Manifold with modified turbo flange $300 + $75
Larger Injectors $600
Some form of Tuning Device (Fuel Adjuster or Piggyback ECU) $200-$850
Front mount intercooler $300
Larger Fuel Pump $125 (walbro 255lph)
Wastegate $500 (buy a proper one or you'll get creep)
Blow off valve $250
Dump Pipe $700
Screamer Pipe $100
Turbo to intercooler pipe $200
Intercooler to intake manifold pipe $200
Turbo oil + water drain and feed lines $300
Some from of heat proofing for manifold and exhaust side of the turbo. $100-$350
Fuel regulator $150-$300
Pod filter + connecting pipe $200
Assortment of bolts, clamps and silicon hoses $150-$200
Fitment of all parts (however I reckon you should do it yourself, I can walk you through it.)
Tune of the set-up $600-$1000

So merely getting a cheap turbo is not gonna make that much of a difference to the overall bill.
Shane Ilich
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:37 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Marc Vipond wrote on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:23 pm:

Wastegate $500 (buy a proper one or you'll get creep)




DO NOT cheap out on a china wastegate. I did - and the thing lasted about 3 weeks on 12psi before the diaphragm tore and it stayed permanently closed - not something you would want to happen in the middle of some WOT action. The thing was $200, as compared to the $450 Tial I now have. For the sake of an extra $250, is it really worth risking melting pistons??
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 01:55 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The turbo already has an external wastegate attached to it. Not sure of the brand though...

Damn, looks like I'm going to have to take another look at this idea then, or chuck some of it on my credit card, bugger! I didn't want to spend much on it but looks like I'll have no choice... in worst case scenario I can always go for the china spec CT12s I saw on the other thread...

So Marc, you reckon the dump pipe and the manifold can both be fabricated for around a grand?? If I can get it at that price I will certainly be able to do it close to properly, as far as my budget is concerned.
Chris Davey
DieHard
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Corona

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 02:02 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you can do it cheaper than Marc's prices personally.

Cheapest manifold would be ebay china manifold and fit a trust flange to it. I think the manifolds are about $350 or so.
James Johnson
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 02:13 pm, by:  James Johnson (Jamesy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I got it all installed did half the work myself removing stock turbos and putting the new turbo on but i got the pipework fabricated at the local exhaust joint.

not including the turbo manafold and wategate it cost me $1200

i already have aftermarket computer, and 440cc injectors.
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 02:18 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok done some ringing around. The cheapest prices I got so far are:

Dump pipe - $250-$280
Manifold - $250-$300
IC piping without cooler - $750

So my minimum budget so far
Turbo - $600
Pipes - $580
All IC Pipes - 750
Cooler - $200 second hand from the guy with the turbo
Used SAFC - $275
Injectors - How much for yours Shane?
Fuel pump - wait a bit
BOV - got one already
Wastegate - got one already
Bits and pieces - $150
SAFC Tune - $200 ??

TOTAL $2755+ or less without the cooler for now

Is that gonna work as a minimum? If so then I think we're still in business :-)
Paul Brockbank
DieHard
WA
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 03:33 pm, by:  Paul Brockbank (Brockas) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

S-AFC II Tune is only $150 at x-speed I believe.

Also, Shane has 650cc injectors. I think they cost him around the $600 mark?
If you don't want 450+rwhp then you don't need these, you will be able to get by with $350 USDM Supra injectors which are 550cc.
They will still support close to 400rwhp.
You can go for the 440cc injectors, for about $200, and they supposedly handle roughly 350rwhp. They also wont need a resistor pack like the 550's will.
Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 03:47 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daniel, Never look at the MINIMUM its going to cost! Ask any of these guys who have built engines and stuff( I have on other models) and things ALWAYS go over Budget. IF you think it may cost youo around $3500, then you will need a Budget of at least $4,000 plus some spare. BEcause some workshop always under prices the work, or you forget about something that needs replacing, r find out something else needs replacing.

ALso Add to the List:-

Removal of Radiator and Service on it or even recore. Bigger turbos = more power = more heat = cooling systems are tested. Would hate to spend all that money to have it overheat on ya for lack of getting your radiator serviced:-)

AND yes i have seen it happen before.
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 03:51 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think for me to get 450rwhp I'd need an aftermarket exhaust haha, I don't see that happening for a while yet, so yeah, 440s will do just fine for now :-)

So I will have to run it at minimum 15 psi, so this definately can't run on stock injectors can it. Oh well, few extra dollars won't hurt I guess...
Chris Davey
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 03:52 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Daniel. It has definitely happened to my car!

I think 440's will be fine though.

More stuff you can do yourself the cheaper it will be. Plus you get to learn a lot more that way.

I think 15psi could be run on stock injectors fine actually. Probably work out to a nice AFR with stock ecu. But to be safe, SAFC + 440's with a tune is the way to go. Then you can up the boost in the future.

380cc injectors have been used up to 250rwkw. 440's have been used up to 300rwkw. 550's have been used up to higher than this :-) US dyno 600rwhp which is about 380rwkw on our dyno with a good fuel system.
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 03:56 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Radiator has been flushed about 4 months ago, so no troubles there. If anything I might have to get a tranny cooler, but that doesn't have to be done immediately I don't think. The guy I'm buying it the turbo from has all that stuff cheap. He bought an old Nissan Bluebird with an SR20 conversion, and all good bits in it for 2.5K few weeks ago, he reckons there's like under $10K worth of parts in it so he decided to strip it and make a profit haha, I can probably get all the bits he has that I need off him for a cheapie...

But yeah I know what you mean Daniel, look at my personal quote in my profile
Shane Ilich
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Friday, September 29, 2006 - 04:50 pm, by:  Shane Ilich (Ferret) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Daniel Czechowski wrote on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 02:18 pm:

Ok done some ringing around. The cheapest prices I got so far are:

Dump pipe - $250-$280
Manifold - $250-$300
IC piping without cooler - $750

So my minimum budget so far
Turbo - $600
Pipes - $580
All IC Pipes - 750
Cooler - $200 second hand from the guy with the turbo
Used SAFC - $275
Injectors - How much for yours Shane?
Fuel pump - wait a bit
BOV - got one already
Wastegate - got one already
Bits and pieces - $150
SAFC Tune - $200 ??

TOTAL $2755+ or less without the cooler for now

Is that gonna work as a minimum? If so then I think we're still in business




Daniel - I bought my 440's off Manny about a year ago for $300. They've been in the car and running fine since. Lemme find out what the going rate is on them secondhand, and I'll get back to you. They wont be available until after the 19th Oct.

Fuel pump - no, dont wait a bit. Just do it now, and know that you're not putting your current, 15 year old one under any extra stress, and know that your new one with a much higher flow-rate is sufficiently feeding the bigger injectors.

Also, your costing doesnt involve all the little things, like oil return lines, water lines, gaskets, new seals, water pump, etc. And a boost controller. Plus labour - ie getting the old turbos off.

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