Soarer Central: Archive through October 23, 2006

Soarer Central Mechanical - TT Turbo Talk Steel wheel turbo Vs hks t3g twin bolt on turbo Archive through October 23, 2006

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Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 731
Reg: 03-2006

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Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 07:17 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

As far as i know, Standard Ceramic Turbos have 12 Blades on the exhaust wheel. The Ebay Steelies only have 8. IM sure this may contribute to lag issues.

Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 2104
Reg: 09-2005

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Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 09:53 pm, by: Callum Finch (Sigeneat)

I think i have read a couple of times that if you push anymore than ~1.3, 1.4bar through the ct12a turbos then it starts getting too hot and power will waiver. Dont quote me but its a little more for the discussion?

Ultimately, if you are after lots of power and you are looking at fiddling around with turbos then it would work out better economically (if you just want power!) to go with more recent model turbos.. wouldnt it?

Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 734
Reg: 03-2006

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Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 10:13 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

If your happy with your power output and chasing reliability after destroying Stock Turbos, Then Steel Wheeled standards would be the way to go.

If your chasing HP and Times, Then go for something that will flow better, Such as High flowed Steelies or aftermarket ones.

I totally agree with Callum.

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 1807
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 11:23 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Ok, may sound like a dumb question, but I was wondering if someone can explain what exactly a hiflowed turbo is, and how is it different from a normal turbo?

Yang Luo
TryHard
vic
soarer twin turbo manual

Posts: 296
Reg: 04-2006

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Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 11:34 pm, by: Yang Luo (Steven)

yes i would like to know what is high flow turbos

Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 735
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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 06:13 am, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

http://www.gcg.com.au/Catalogue_Menus/Upgrade%20Turbochargers/upgrade_ct12a.htm

The Compressor Housings will be machined out to take Larger Impeller wheels. Or be replaced with Larger housings and Larger wheels. This allows the user to keep Factory Pipework and utilise a Turbocharger that will flow more CFM.

These Ct12A's from GCG, Once high Flowed, WIll give a 20% power increase at the Same boost level. Still stock looking turbos, But machined housings and larger Impeller wheels fitted.

So your 200rwkw with stockies, Just got turned into 230-240rwkw with these turbos.( As an example). So long as you have the fuel system to cope, and other ancilleries. So A good alternative for replacement of stockies if your chasing more power, without going the expense of a Big Single.

Braden Murdoch
TryHard
NSW
Cressida 1JZ TT

Posts: 186
Reg: 04-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 02:49 pm, by: Braden Murdoch (Ribfeast)

You will get more reliability with the steel wheels, but that is about all really. I gained around 5kW, but that was probably from running 18psi instead of the 15psi the ceramics were running at.

Interesting to hear about the reduced number of fins on the exhaust wheels, I didn't notice that.
Found that if I stall it up on 75% throttle it stalls up higher and launches better, so I'll be trying that next time I am at WSID. Previously I was stalling it up on 100% throttle and overfuelling it it seems.

Wish I could afford a big single

Maurice Diggler
TryHard
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 377
Reg: 06-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 03:04 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

I have dreamt about a single turbo since owning my car, although I think that a set of hi-flowed roller bearing rebuild ones that produce 270rwkw would be better than a laggy 300rwkw single set up.

Modded twims = 270rwkw, legal looking and very responsive.

Single = 300rwkw, totally illegal and more laggy.

I think a 30rwkw trade off for peace of mind and response is definately worth it.

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 1812
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 03:11 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Braden, so you're saying you basically will have to run higher boost on steel wheels to get the same power as you would on ceramics?? My limited understanding of it all was that at same boost level ceramics and steel wheels would produce same max power, only the quartermile time be slower for the steel wheels because of bigger lag, so you compensate by increasing boost to catch up down the line...

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 1813
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 03:22 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Maurice Diggler wrote on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 03:04 pm:
I have dreamt about a single turbo since owning my car, although I think that a set of hi-flowed roller bearing rebuild ones that produce 270rwkw would be better than a laggy 300rwkw single set up.

Modded twims = 270rwkw, legal looking and very responsive.

Single = 300rwkw, totally illegal and more laggy.

I think a 30rwkw trade off for peace of mind and response is definately worth it.

And just a comparison of stock twins versus singles... Up till now (well, next fortnight), I had a stock car. My cousin's Supra had a TD06 single turbo conversion, exhaust, FMIC, manual tranny and a range of other mods etc, dynoed at something like 330rwhp (as oposed to my stock 211rwhp). I've dragged my cousin at the drag strip 1 on 1 a few times, and honestly, his car was so laggy, we were neck and neck together up to maybe 2/3 of the strip, from then on after well over 100 kays his just went and beat me by well over a second...

My point is, yeah sure his car has 50% more power, but that is only useful at the drag strip. If this was on a street and I was to drag him off the lights (not that I would Mr Cop) obviously I wouldn't be doing 160 kays or more all the way to the quartermile on a public road, his extra top power wouldn't do jack sh|t...

Maurice Diggler
TryHard
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 381
Reg: 06-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 03:49 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Exactly.

Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
"1JZ Surgeon"
JZZ30

Posts: 1427
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 04:08 pm, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

A properly setup single on a 2JZ can make 300rwkw with tyre churning lack of lag. Even the stock sequential setup is practically lag free in comparison to the 1J bi setup.

BPU supra's make over 230rwkw with relatively no lag, i dont know what the point of going a single was if its taking 250 metres to pass a stock soarer. Clearly something was missing there.

For one thing, your cousins 60ft's are most likely horrendous. Some nice tyres that will actually hookup a 4000rpm launch will see him well in front - from the start.

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 1815
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 04:17 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Yeah, don;t exactly remember what the figures were, the 2/3 was my estimation from my hazy memory, but I remember we were on the same level together for quite a bit, when I dragged him first time I thought I was gonna win, till he hit full power that is

Of course the stock sequential setup in a supra is lag free or has less lag than the soarer... that's why they made it sequential so small turbo hits boost virtually straight away, till there's enough revs to spin the bigger one on boost.

Benjamin Burgess
DieHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 691
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 04:31 pm, by: Benjamin Burgess (Jampac)

Well don't know what people are going on about lag for. I'm happy to take anyone for spin in my single turbo gt30 soarer and they'll get a good idea on the lag well, lack of it. My 60ft times are crap of course due to standard stallie, cause its nothing like stock ceramics, but saying a single well be heaps more laggy than twin steel wheel stockies, your dreaming.

What I can do is do a stall up (mash brake, mash throttle, do until rear wheels break traction) and log it, something I've been meaning to do, so can see exactly what boost and at what rpm, when under full load, for matching the right stall convertor.

Bill Bogiatzis
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 193
Reg: 04-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 07:32 pm, by: Bill Bogiatzis (Boggie23)

Well I can not comment on single turbo but as I have said previously, it hit me how poor performing the steelies where. And mine where rebuilt with 11 blades. No Chinese ones.

From the ceramics with the virtually instant boost to this d!ck tease I have now. You put the power on and wait and wait. My turbos are called Eddie because I put the power on and then we will see what happens after the break.

Ok I am exaggerating a fair bit here but my mate said that my stock soarer (with ceramics) pulled off better then any other automatic turbo he had ever been in or heard of. And truth be said that in stock form these cars are awesome. And they were well built and quality is evident as seen through performance, transmission, interior etc.

Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 744
Reg: 03-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 07:55 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

Have you thought about an Adjustable Exhaust Cam Gear Bill? I have heard these help bring the power down a little lower in the rpm and can change the rpm of Spolling by up to 3-400rpm...

Might be worth looking into mate. If one of these fitted and tuned can get your turbos spoooling up a little earlier, it sounds like you would be a happy man again.

Lindsey Swan
TryHard
QLD
GTT-L

Posts: 161
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 08:04 pm, by: Lindsey Swan (Banzaibattlecrazzzy)

Bill do you have a dump pipe installed?

Lindsey Swan
TryHard
QLD
GTT-L

Posts: 162
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 08:29 pm, by: Lindsey Swan (Banzaibattlecrazzzy)

well how much are a brand new set of ceramic ct12's from toyota cost? arm and leg?

Bill Bogiatzis
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 194
Reg: 04-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 08:51 pm, by: Bill Bogiatzis (Boggie23)

Lindsey Swan wrote on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 08:29 pm:
well how much are a brand new set of ceramic ct12's from toyota cost? arm and leg?

Strangely enough I asked a person once about new turbos and he told me he could get them at about 2600+varient for the front one. And it was an OEM part? So over 5 grand for the set.

You can get them rebuilt to stock form but it is hard to find. Mine ones where suppose to be rebuilt to ceramics but there was huge bungles and it took over 4 months to get the car back on the road.

It costs around 2200-2500 for steel wheel conversion (that is how much it cost me).

And Daniel and Lindsey there is no work done to the exhaust yet. There was a to get dumps but the turbos ended up costing 800 more than expected so that plan went out the window.

Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 ute / uzz30/ 2 X uzz31

Posts: 1383
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 09:09 pm, by: Lew Radbourn (Marlew)

Single against twins???
my 2 cents worth;
Questions;
1/ Why do people go to singles?
2/ Why do Supras get moving quicker than soarers?
Answers;
1/ why singles
it CAN be a cheaper alternative (or so a lot of people think) when thay are confronted with china copies on Ebay( turbos and manifolds)
back about 5 years ago there was a drama with exhaust wheels.there was nothing available to replace the broken ceramic wheel.
as time went on and a lot of R&D from Turbo experts thay did find an alternative wheel to use.
BY this stage people had only had HKS in Japan to turn to for single conversions.
which was very expensive and laggy on low rev performance.
SO HKS (god bless them) started to think about bigger HP twins.(T3G's)
then some local (Australian) people got hold of these turbos and started figuring out that the roller bearing centers could be modified to suit the turbos.
Great idea !!!!!
if we combine the T3G wheels with the roller bearing centers what would that go like?????

ANSWER; Bloody awsome.
For a 1jz.
so the ball starts rolling on roller bearing twin turbos for the 1jz
BUGGER ME that works out about the same price as a garrett single system.........YES
so singles will be the way to go???
less head aches as there is only one turbo
one set of oil and water lines one dump pipe
and Hay it looks really cool having the compressor housing polished and the there pipes polished.
Hmmmmm.....May be i can throw a BOV in that pipe and it will look really cool as well......
then the boost controller and a pod ..
great stuff then mister plod comes along cause you have just hung the biggest burn out of ya life and he puts a sticker on the car and has said this car must be towed away you are not driving this car on our streets....
Hmmmmm ...I have a drama now....
i sold off all my stock gear to help pay for the single system...WHAT AM I TO DO????
I know the guys on SC may have some stock stuff laying around i will buy what i need to get the RWC and when it is passed i will put all the single stuff back on and she'll be right again..

By this stage the cops have locked your car in there system to watch out for you on the roads again and thay pull you over once again and again and again.
so you get so pissed off ya sell the car and miss out on one of lives pleasures *THE SOARER FEELING *

so in a nut shell
twins will perform better than a single (legaly)
Bens set up with the GT30 (single system) is about the best all round set up for the 1JZ motor
the twins(CT12a modified) as a roller bearing center is about the best we can get as twins ....
BUT ...it will look as any other standard turbo soarer and the cops will leave you alone so you can
enjoy the SOARER FEELING......

sorry guys that was a really long 2 cents.hehhehehe

Oppps i forgot question 2...
one turbo comes on boost before the other one
I am not 100% sure about the different sizes
BUT my 2jz have the same size front and back turbo.
Cheers

Lindsey Swan
TryHard
QLD
GTT-L

Posts: 163
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 09:17 pm, by: Lindsey Swan (Banzaibattlecrazzzy)

See im the type of person who likes my car stock as a rock and im not after extra power.. im not after a soarer that launches like some animal, i normally accelerate like a grandma

i know nothing will be the same as ceramic turbos.. but when the time comes when ole faithful ceramics bite the dust..

If i jam on the Steel wheel turbos, dump pipe and run like 15psi through them with an EBC... im assuming ill be fairly close to the mark as the ceramics?

give or take a few 100 rpm.. from what i read.. i have no idea about the adjustable exhaust cam... sounds intense...

Bill Bogiatzis
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 195
Reg: 04-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 09:36 pm, by: Bill Bogiatzis (Boggie23)

Boost level will not change the rev range to get positive boost. But it will help top end speed (bigger power band). To get better reaction you will need better flow. The dumps are restrictive so they should be changed to slightly improve lag. I don’t think an exhaust will reduce lag (i think it will only assist with HP more so than quicker spool up). Cams are another thing that can reduce lag. So for around 2 grand or so you may have a quicker spool up than stock.

Maybe if we can find a reputable turbo rebuilder to get them back to ceramics. A lot of people bag the ceramics because they say they don’t last and are not reliable. Well if we look at the figures these turbos are one of the best systems for the 1jz engine. They have quick spool up and are quite durable. Now these turbos have lasted for 10-15 years and no body knows how they where used in their previous life. So with property maintenance i am sure they will live for at least another 15 years on whatever boost level you wish.

Benjamin Burgess
DieHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 693
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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 09:54 pm, by: Benjamin Burgess (Jampac)

Ok question for the guys who think you'll get defected. Why would a cop want to pop your bonnet?

a) cause they want to have a look for kicks
b) cause they saw you pull hectic skids out of maccas.
c) cause they heard the fully sik blow off valve.
d) cause they are targetting soarers
e) cause of the fully sik body kit on the car + gauges + pink house of kolour paint job
f) random s***.....

Ok in the 14 years i've been driving not once has a cop ever asked me to pop the bonnet and i've been pulled over a few times in done up cars, but not done up like chapel/george street specials.

Last cruise for soarercentral I got pulled over and all the cop did was check my tyres give me a breatho and sent me on my way.

My car isn't so low it hits every speed hump and rides the bump stops, it hasn't got fully sik 20" temple of chrome specials, its got bloody toyota rims, its stock man, why would you want to pop the bonnet? Its probably got some slow v8 in it any way, like just about everyone who doesn't know about soarers asks (that'll get me in trouble with v8 boys).

One of the times I got pulled over I was pulling some serious speed, and not once did he even think of popping the bonnet, he commenting on my lumpy idle and suggusted I get my exhaust checked (ecu was faulty throwing bogus cam angle sensor failures).

Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 746
Reg: 03-2006

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:00 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

http://www.uniqueautosports.com.au/Dyno/15JCAMAD.gif

Here is one example.

The INtake Gear will make a big difference though. If you have a Manual or Fully Manualised Auto, then the Inlet + Exhaust wheel is the go.

Gears done on an Rb series Engine. Note the Boost Response with the INlet gear done.
http://www.uniqueautosports.com.au/Dyno/yx32gtstdyno.gif

Pretty impressive. Not sure you would get the same results with a 1JZ though.

Although the Power band does climb better with exhaust gear done on the 1Jz.

Danny Dinh
TryHard
Victoria
GT T

Posts: 133
Reg: 11-2005

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Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:10 pm, by: Danny Dinh (Xtc)

Australian delivered 2jz supras have two different sized turbo's. The front being smaller than the back which gives boost instantly and once it reaches the factory set pressure the second turbo comes in to give extra kick at top end. I have a pair of 2jz turbo's and yes they are different.

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