Soarer Central: Archive through October 25, 2006

Soarer Central Mechanical - TT Turbo Talk Steel wheel turbo Vs hks t3g twin bolt on turbo Archive through October 25, 2006

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Maurice Diggler
TryHard
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 385
Reg: 06-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:28 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

I heard that 2JZ turbos are internally identical but one has a wastegate and the other has a bypass valve.

At low RPM's the bypass valve is open on one turbo, it feeds 6 cylinders of exhaust gasses to the other turbo (Thus it spins up quickly) Then the bypass valve closes and BOTH turbos are working together.

I've read a HEAP of times that JDM 2JZ turbos are the same size, it's the RX7 that has one big and one smaller turbo.

Or did I dream it?

Bill Bogiatzis
TryHard
NSW
TT

Posts: 196
Reg: 04-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:31 pm, by: Bill Bogiatzis (Boggie23)

Benjamin Burgess wrote on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 09:54 pm:
a) cause they want to have a look for kicks
b) cause they saw you pull hectic skids out of maccas.
c) cause they heard the fully sik blow off valve.
d) cause they are targetting soarers
e) cause of the fully sik body kit on the car + gauges + pink house of kolour paint job
f) random s***.....

You should add
g) because you are wearing a fully sik white hat and have a bad hair cut.

Benjamin Burgess
DieHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 694
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:41 pm, by: Benjamin Burgess (Jampac)

Its called the penls haircut.

Jeff Wilkins
TryHard
South Australia
JZZ30 GT-TL

Posts: 252
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:27 am, by: Jeff Wilkins (Calin)

Yeah Maurice, last I looked Supras had a pair of Hitachi C12's with a wastegate on the primary turbo only.

In fact, care of wiki:

The MKIV Supra's twin turbos operated in sequential mode instead of the more common parallel mode. The sequential setup featured a pair of small, equally sized turbos, with ceramic blades for the domestic Japanese market and steel blades for export (USA, Europe) markets. At first, all of the exhaust is routed to the first turbine for reduced lag. This resulted in boost and enhanced torque as early as 1800 rpm. Approaching 4000 rpm, the exhaust is routed to the second turbine for a "pre-boost" mode, although none of the compressor output is used by the engine at this point. Approaching 4500 rpm, the second turbo's output is added to the intake air, and both turbos operate in parallel.

Lindsey Swan
TryHard
QLD
GTT-L

Posts: 164
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 07:36 am, by: Lindsey Swan (Banzaibattlecrazzzy)

So all in all. (what i learnt from this thread)

Save money and buy the Ebay turbos for $1200.

It doesn't matter whether the turbo has 12 or 8 blades, they all have the same issue of a 'little' bit of lag.. which i don't think would be that much of a problem anyway.

Its mildly slow off the line.. for those of you who drag race could be a problem.. but for everyday driver.. they suffice.

They also give you good mid to high response, so when overtaking you can really blitz someone.. i like that.

Just factor in the cost of a dump pipe to alleviate some of the lag, and wind up the boost with an EBC because you can.

If your the rich and famous, high flow the stupid turbos and buy some stupid cam gears or something to alleviate more lag or install a 2jz so you get that extra torque to move the soarers fat ass.

Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 ute / uzz30/ 2 X uzz31

Posts: 1388
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 07:40 am, by: Lew Radbourn (Marlew)

Lindsey Swan wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 07:36 am:
or install a 2jz so you get that extra torque to move the soarers fat ass.

Lindsey;
yer mate thats about it
But it is a nice arse to get motivated

Daniel Clarke
DieHard
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 748
Reg: 03-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 08:10 am, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

Hehe Spend $1200 on ebay turbo's and just get reliabilty or Spend $2900 and get Reliability and at least 20% MORE power( at the same psi) With the option of more( these are high flowed and will keep on making power up to and above 18psi)!

Definately 2nd option. Ebay over GCG for long term reliability? I doubt it Lindsay, Not in my books anyways. Over my years of modifying cars, Beeing cheap aint always the best option. Sometimes you gotta pay for the good stuff. And dont forget, Even $2900 for turbos that will last over 10 years, is only $290 a year for Lots more fun

Thats the way i see it.

If lag is an issue, drop in a 2J? They sell for at least 3k themselves. Plus your Ebay steelies for $1200 and you looking at over $4500 PLus Labour.

Makes the $2900 turbos look the goods now

Lindsey Swan
TryHard
QLD
GTT-L

Posts: 165
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 10:04 am, by: Lindsey Swan (Banzaibattlecrazzzy)

omg wat is with these people and more p0wah.. lol there is more to life to jammin a car down a 1/4 mile straight.. unless your vin diesel..

im just after advice on how to achieve somewhat comparable performance/reliability when ceramics die and not spend the earth.

Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
"1JZ Surgeon"
JZZ30

Posts: 1438
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 10:17 am, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Lindsey Swan wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 10:04 am:
unless your vin diesel..

No, Daniel likes to be called Dieseltrain.
Get it right.

Benjamin Burgess
DieHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

Posts: 695
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 10:25 am, by: Benjamin Burgess (Jampac)

We are all budding Tim the toolman's.

Braden Murdoch
TryHard
NSW
Cressida 1JZ TT

Posts: 191
Reg: 04-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 11:39 am, by: Braden Murdoch (Ribfeast)

Or just get the GT30 engineered and show the cop the paperwork when he tries to defect you.
I'd loooove a GT30, if I ever get to have a ride in a 1JZ powered car with one I would be very grateful so I can see if the lack of lag is as good as everyone says.
Actually does anyone have dyno prints of a GT30-equipped 1JZ?

Steven Nanevski
DieHard
NSW
HKS 264/264 Cams are in, Cheering....

Posts: 662
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 01:49 pm, by: Steven Nanevski (Imprestik)

quote:
im just after advice on how to achieve somewhat comparable performance/reliability when ceramics die and not spend the earth.

if you dont give a crap about performance/how quick your car goes down the quarter/looking for the cheapest way out when your ceramics blow, just get another set of ceramics used off this forum, there are heaps of sets around here that you can pick up for $400 a set, theres your question answered, cheap and simple.

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 1827
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 02:27 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Steven Nanevski wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 01:49 pm:
quote:
im just after advice on how to achieve somewhat comparable performance/reliability when ceramics die and not spend the earth.

if you dont give a crap about performance/how quick your car goes down the quarter/looking for the cheapest way out when your ceramics blow, just get another set of ceramics used off this forum, there are heaps of sets around here that you can pick up for $400 a set, theres your question answered, cheap and simple.

I wouldn't bet reliability on second hand ceramics... they might get blown as well after 10, 15 thousand kays, or maybe 50K kays, you never know, a bit of a gamble, especially that they are probably as old as the stock turbos you have now. Besides, just to remove your old turbos and put new ones on is quite a bit of work, unless you're looking at doing it yourself, expect to pay another grand for labour. If I was paying I'd rather put somehting that I know will last, ie steel wheels or brand spanking new ceramics, otherwise you never know, you might have to go through the whole process again!

If you're doing it yourself like I am at the moment (with some help from Ben Daniel, cheers mate!!) it will probably take you over 10 hours to do, if not more! Hell, it took me about 3 hours to take off all the intake piping and most water lines, and then another 5 hours to take off the front turbo off the dump pipe and manifold! And I still have the rear one to take off, and then repeat the process in reverse to put the new turbos back on... Unless you got heaps of time and you enjoy mucking around with the car, I'd say do it once, do it right! Then again a pro will do it twice as quickly as me, but oh well, it's been good so far

Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 ute / uzz30/ 2 X uzz31

Posts: 1389
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 03:13 pm, by: Lew Radbourn (Marlew)

Braden Murdoch wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 11:39 am:
Or just get the GT30 engineered and show the cop the paperwork when he tries to defect you.

Braden been looking into that have you got a spare 6K laying around and i will go and get it tested and get the ticket.

Lindsey Swan
TryHard
QLD
GTT-L

Posts: 166
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 03:13 pm, by: Lindsey Swan (Banzaibattlecrazzzy)

Steven Nanevski wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 01:49 pm:
just get another set of ceramics used off this forum,

yeh that might be a good answer for someone who's on the dole and owns a crap soarer.

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 1829
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 03:35 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

The cheapest/most sensible option for you Lindsey would be to rebuild and steel wheel (perhaps even hiflow) your current turbos, that's it. I don't know how much you'd save if you just go them rebuilt with ceramic wheels, I presume not much. Do the labour taking them out and putting them back in and you're done, $2.5K. Probably also get a bleed valve and up the boost a little to compensate for the lag and you're done.

Steven Nanevski
DieHard
NSW
HKS 264/264 Cams are in, Cheering....

Posts: 664
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 03:58 pm, by: Steven Nanevski (Imprestik)

quote:
yeh that might be a good answer for someone who's on the dole and owns a crap soarer.

See now I dont understand what you are going on about, you want a cheap option but quality stuff, sorry but it doesn't work like that and this is going by what you are saying in this post.
If you look at it, no matter which way you go, your going to spend 2K minimum because these are your options.

a) Go to toyota and get a set of brand new ceramics, becuase there would be no turbo manufacturer\rebuilder in Australia willing enough to rebuild ceramic turbos (well speaking from personal experience), I have rang many places in Sydney which have just plainly laugh in my face when it came to rebuilding ceramics. estimated cost from toyota, can only presume well over 2K plus labour and while you have the turbos off you might as well speak to lew and get a set of his dumps on too.

b) Go the chinese steel wheel ebay option ($1200) + labour and again lews dumps, well over 2K. But with these quality is an issue going from previous posts, and you stated you want quality.

c) Go the GCG option steel wheels which are build from quality (which you have stated you want quality) and your already looking at 3K just for the turbos alone, then again labour + lews dumps, but now these 3 options look out of your range because you stated above

quote:
performance/reliability when ceramics die and not spend the earth

Like it or not, every TT owner who wants to replace their ceramic turbos after blowing them up is looking at 2K or more. Its just that plain and simple.

I'm not trying to have a go at you here, but it gets very fustrating on here when members want to rebuild their twins and/or go a big single setup and only want to spend 1 to 2k, dreaming is free if you want to think that way.

And your quote here,

quote:
yeh that might be a good answer for someone who's on the dole and owns a crap soarer.

Please dont be disrespectful to other members who are trying to sell their second hand ceramics, I know of 1 member on here who had his turbos rebuilt to steel wheels and had well over 200,000Kms and they were still plotting along quite fine/ they had minimal wear and shaft play, service your turbos rights with regular oil changes and your turbos will last.

Brad Elphinstone
DieHard
NSW
MR2 Spyder

Posts: 505
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 04:17 pm, by: Brad Elphinstone (Belphins)

Lindsey Swan wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 03:13 pm:
yeh that might be a good answer for someone who's on the dole and owns a crap soarer.

Great attitude there.

Want something as good as the stock turbos and performs exactly like stock turbos? How about "stock turbos"? You snap up a cheap set, get them reco'd, then you're back to where you were before your original stockers died. Or if that's too "ghetto" for you, do the obvious and pay for brand new ones.

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 1830
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 04:22 pm, by: Daniel Czechowski (Dan)

Lindsey Swan wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 03:13 pm:
yeh that might be a good answer for someone who's on the dole and owns a crap soarer.

If you're not on the dole then why are you complaining about paying $2K plus to fix them up?

Maurice Diggler
TryHard
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 388
Reg: 06-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 04:38 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Jeff Wilkins wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:27 am:
The MKIV Supra's twin turbos operated in sequential mode instead of the more common parallel mode. The sequential setup featured a pair of small, equally sized turbos, with ceramic blades for the domestic Japanese market and steel blades for export (USA, Europe) markets. At first, all of the exhaust is routed to the first turbine for reduced lag. This resulted in boost and enhanced torque as early as 1800 rpm. Approaching 4000 rpm, the exhaust is routed to the second turbine for a "pre-boost" mode, although none of the compressor output is used by the engine at this point. Approaching 4500 rpm, the second turbo's output is added to the intake air, and both turbos operate in parallel.

Maurice! FTW!

Maurice Diggler
TryHard
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 389
Reg: 06-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 04:49 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Braden Murdoch wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 11:39 am:
Or just get the GT30 engineered and show the cop the paperwork when he tries to defect you.

In Victoria, you cannot get a tunable ECU or piggyback ECU engineered. Then you can't have two induction mods.

Also, the EPA will ass F@ck you with a single turbo, the Law states ANY mod you do to your car that increases emissions over standard isn't legal, so I highly doubt a set a 650cc squirters and a huge snail would be legal.

Another point, if a cop 'thinks' something is illegal / unroadworthy they can defect you engineered or not, it's up to you to take it to the RTA to get it all cleared up.

Ben Lipman
TryHard
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 186
Reg: 04-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 08:26 pm, by: Ben Lipman (Ben12a)

Lindsey Swan wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 07:36 am:
Its mildly slow off the line.. for those of you who drag race could be a problem.. but for everyday driver.. they suffice.

Actually Lindsey, I think you will find that drag racers are willing to put up with a bit of lag if the trade off is more power up top. A stally and suspension work easily cover the shortfall.

It is the daily driver who needs good low and mid range torque right where that lag is. That is why Manufacturers work so hard at it. Increased lag equals decreased driveability. (ie always having to be in the right gear). This is why some guys who get 50 more HP on the dyno are sometimes unsatisfied with the real world (Traffic etc) driving experience.

My ten cents worth to fuel the discussion further.

Sorry to quote so far back but some of us none dole bludgers have to work.

Rainer Fritzsche
Tinkerer
NSW
TT

Posts: 52
Reg: 10-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 09:03 pm, by: Rainer Fritzsche (Ryner)

Braden Murdoch wrote on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 11:39 am:
Or just get the GT30 engineered and show the cop the paperwork when he tries to defect you.
I'd loooove a GT30, if I ever get to have a ride in a 1JZ powered car with one I would be very grateful so I can see if the lack of lag is as good as everyone says.
Actually does anyone have dyno prints of a GT30-equipped 1JZ?

Yep, I've got a GT30. I don't have a boost or torque graph, just power and AFR as follows. Mine is a VVTi though and manual. As far as being defected goes, no one would ever know it's there unless you knew your Soarers of course. It's a GT30 cartridge with machined standard comp cover and turbine housing. All pipework is standard also (for the moment, anyway). Yes, there's virtually zero lag.

Braden Murdoch
TryHard
NSW
Cressida 1JZ TT

Posts: 193
Reg: 04-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 02:58 pm, by: Braden Murdoch (Ribfeast)

Only 210hp, what is the go there? Spools up night and quick though, thanks for the graph

Taken it to the creek yet?

Where did you get the figure of $6k from Lew for engineering? It is usually around $550 to engineer a car. If it has an aftermarket ECU they usually have to lock it after emissions tests so that you can't play with it after you drive back out.

Rainer Fritzsche
Tinkerer
NSW
TT

Posts: 54
Reg: 10-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 08:34 pm, by: Rainer Fritzsche (Ryner)

Braden Murdoch wrote on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 02:58 pm:
Only 210hp, what is the go there? Spools up night and quick though, thanks for the graph Taken it to the creek yet?

Everything's stock as a rock.......exhaust, intercooler, etc.......even the airbox has the standard snorkel on it!! She's only running 9 pounds of boost!! - The GT30 went in when the standard snail gave up the ghost.

No, I haven't been to the drags in her.......I've still got a 91TT auto (see profile) that I'll be selling soon that does 13 sec flat quarters. The 98's much nicer to drive, but the 91's heaps faster.....

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