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Chris Hilton
Newbie
Victoria
TT

Posts: 1
Reg: 12-2006

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:03 am, by:  Chris Hilton (Tetsuo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys

Well ive sold my old car, and 100% certain on buying a Toyota Soarer TT within the next week and personally i cant wait :-)

Ive read all the websites, gained heaps of insite into these beautiful cars but if anyone can tell me what to be cautious of that would be great.

Now to the reason i posted this, with the twin turbos, after a BOV (blow off valve) has been installed can you actually hear the turbo go off, or do you only hear it 'spool (wind)' up?

Basically after i buy this car im going to jspec racing having aftermarket intercooler, manifold and boost guage controller (@12-13psi) installed. Anything else i should consider getting upgraded?

Also the one im looking at seems perfect, not lexu unfortuantly only the toyota (non luxury), BUTTTTT its done 190,XXX km's which im very cautious about since the turbos have never been re-worked. From what ive read turbos life spans are very hard to calculate but after this distance they must be on the way to dead?

Thanks to whoever replies, im not soon noob on a quest!! so plz dont flame.

If you have any other information that would be great, just post it here or if u can PM me.


THANKS! cant wait to be a part of the community on the road ;)
Chris}
Ben Socratous
Goo Roo
SA
I am the fibreglass/kevlar/carbonfibre king!

Posts: 1184
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 07:00 am, by:  Ben Socratous (Socrates) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Chris Hilton wrote on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:03 am:

after i buy this car im going to jspec racing


Eh? That is very basic, or more to the point, essential upgrades mate! For 'racing' mods, see here...
http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/285/118781.html?1166007477

You should look at doing the exhaust as the first port of call, no point doing anything else if the engine can't breathe! There are a few people on this forum that can hook you up with a tried and proven system for the soarer. For a complete system, ie dumps, front pipe, cat, resonator and mufflers set aside about $1600. That by itself will give you an extra (approx) 25rwkw and will pave the way for any future mods.

Provided the turbos have been taken care of (oil change every 5000km) there is no reason why the stock turbos shouldn't last past 300,000km, and there are people here that can back that up too.


Chris Hilton wrote on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:03 am:

actually hear the turbo go off, or do you only hear it 'spool (wind)' up


What do you mean, hear the BOV sound? With an auto you will only hear it on a sharp release of the throttle, do any intake mods on the soarer and the induction noise is very audible too!

Hope that helps, and welcome!
Ben
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 374
Reg: 07-2006

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 07:24 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Ben Socratous wrote on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 07:00 am:

What do you mean, hear the BOV sound? With an auto you will only hear it on a sharp release of the throttle, do any intake mods on the soarer and the induction noise is very audible too!




Remove or open the grommet in the firewall right near the BOV and you'll hear a lot more turbo and BOV noise too.

Mine is out right now for a stereo install and the noise is much louder

Lol A ported engine bay.
Hayden Miller
TryHard
QLD
Soarer TT

Posts: 165
Reg: 02-2006

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 09:05 am, by:  Hayden Miller (Zero) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Chris Hilton wrote on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:03 am:

so plz dont flame




Welcome Chris.
Just a heads up, try to avoid sms speak. Some members get very upset about it.
Rob Andreacchio
Moderator
Victoria
Supercharged VT Calais & 1991 JZZ30

Posts: 2096
Reg: 01-2005

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 10:03 am, by:  Rob Andreacchio (Reepa) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, come and take mine for $20K.. already done for you... and ALL the goodies are in there.
Yang Luo
DieHard
vic
soarer twin turbo manual

Posts: 573
Reg: 04-2006

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 10:52 am, by:  Yang Luo (Steven) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

pm sent
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2065
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 11:08 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, watch for any smoke coming out of the exhaust (not condensation, or black rich fuel mixture). Usually if it smokes blue or grey on idle after the car has warmed up even, it will be stuffed turbos, big job to replace. Even if it is little bit of smoke, its life will be limited. My car's had 190K kays when I had to replace mine, but everyone is different. Personally I've never heard of anyone with their turbos lasting 300K kays...

Either way, like Ben has said, doing the exhasut would be the very first thing you should do. Especially the dumps and midpipe (cost me just under a grand off Lew Radbourne, a member on this forum), stock ones seem to be the most restrictive parts, I might post a pic for you to show how pathetic it is. Doing that alone should raise your boost a little. Also, mod your intake, search the forum for BFI, you'll find plenty of info there.

Oh, and
Chris Hilton
Newbie
Victoria
TT

Posts: 2
Reg: 12-2006

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 11:27 am, by:  Chris Hilton (Tetsuo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey guys thanks alot for the replies, im going to take a look at this car tonight. im dissapointed its not the lexus model with woodgrain, so may pass it up however when one door closes another opens

The exhaust i will get done first then.
So the entire way back from the extractors, possible including the catalyst converter *pending costs.
I would assume 2.25" tubing right? or is the engine loud enough to handle 2.5" considering its a straight six?
any reccomendations on sizing? any places in vic?

Thanks for the offer rob but $20,000 a little more than i can afford ahah

Ill keep you guys updated as to my findings!!
keep the great information coming, and thanks for the warm welcome..

Chris
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2067
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 11:41 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a few clarification there for you...

1. There is no Lexus model. All soarers in Oz are JDM Toyota Soarer, if it has a lexus badge on it, the previous owner has just replaced it for the wank value

2. If it doesn't have woodgrain, it would seem it is the JZZ30 GT-T povo pack. The woodgrain one would be the JZZ30 GT-TL model etc. Look around the site it describes all this stuff in detail somewhere.

3. Turbo cars don't have extractors, only NA ones do. The correct terminology/order for those things is as follows, first you got the engine --> exhaust manifold --> turbo --> dump pipe --> mid pipe --> catalytic converter etc... You can leave the manifold as it is, but dump pipe onwards will need to be upgraded.

Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2068
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 11:49 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the stock dump pipe in a soarer. Pathetic and retarded to say the least...

Upload
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
"1JZ no "
JZZ30

Posts: 1585
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, December 15, 2006 - 01:02 am, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can make over 230rwkw with the stock Y split feeding a 3" dump pipe..

Not so retarded now is it :-)
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 377
Reg: 07-2006

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Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:33 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is the stock outlet size of that cast dump?

edit: In all it's pathetic undersized and turbulence causing glory.
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2072
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, December 15, 2006 - 10:33 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Cihan Aday wrote on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 01:02 am:

You can make over 230rwkw with the stock Y split feeding a 3" dump pipe..

Not so retarded now is it




Imagine how much more with a nice set of aftermarket less restrictive dumps...

Maybe not so retarded, but is still retarded nevertheless
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
"1JZ no "
JZZ30

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Friday, December 15, 2006 - 04:10 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Touche' :-)
I think unless you're running hiflowed turbos, the turbine is so small that turbulence caused after it doesn't have enough of an impact to impose much more of a restriction. In nearly all cases where a standard sized turbine and exhaust AR is retained, i'd say the actual turbine is the restriction.

Thats not to say a good set of dumps won't help on the rollers, but it would explain why guys with stock dumps are fairing pretty well in comparison to those sporting dumps as part of their list of exhaust enhancements. 'check'

If i choose to retain the factory twin turbo setup, a clean set of twin dumps are on the cards.
Ben Daniel
DieHard
WA
Twin Turbo

Posts: 743
Reg: 03-2006

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Friday, December 15, 2006 - 07:03 pm, by:  Ben Daniel (Lexustt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lews Dumps FTW!
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 2273
Reg: 09-2005

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Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:29 pm, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cihan, my understanding of why the stock y piece is so crummy is that the exhaust from the turbos turning around the bends when they meet up in the dump pipe which causes turbulence. Couple that with pressure differences and swirls around the wastegate (which is not seperated at all) and you end up with some tougher airflow. Or is that not entirely correct?

..and i understand that Lew's dump pipes have longer pipes from the turbos which join much further along once the air is flowing in the same direction, so that it doesnt clash as much.
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
"1JZ no "
JZZ30

Posts: 1591
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Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 01:15 am, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well we have flow and then we have pressure, two different things that cause different problems. Because the turbine section is a flow restriction, pressure buildup or turbulence after it isn't necessarily a huge problem. Its like the weakest link in a chain, it doesn't matter how strong the other links are.

Its all theoretical, i was just having a friendly go at Dan hehe :-) Dumps are a good thing to have, and Lews dumps for the win definitely. We have no hard proof to gather whether the turbine + wastegate opening outflows the standard dump pipe or not so its just speculation at this point. Since people are seeing decent power gains, there is no doubt in my mind that dumps are effective. Its just that how effective they are is determined by the size of the turbine and wastegate proceeding them :-)

If your turbo's are high flowed/steel wheeled running high boost or you have T3G's, standard dumps would limit performance definitely.

If your still curious as to why, lets just say that turbulence under pressure just after a turbine opening is not such a concern. Its the flow characteristics of the pipe and the volume of gas it can move without causing a raise in pressure thats most important. Air travels differently under pressure and its under a lot of pressure exiting the turbine. The volume of the dump is important to stimulate a pressure drop.

If you consider it, just increasing the size of the wastegate can increase power output by reducing average exhaust port pressure and subsequently reducing exhaust gas reversion.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 1020
Reg: 03-2006

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Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 09:20 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would like to see a Back to Back Dyno of Before and After Dump pipes Power Graph. Not for Peak power, but to show HOW the power curve has changed and see what increase in the Torque curve is also.

I would be guessing fatter peak on the torque curve and more power in the top end. But I Really wonder if the actual Power figure would remain the same from boost until higher in the rev range and just Peak Higher in the top end of the Rev range, thus giving it more HP BUT still leaving the guy with stock dumps to still get decent 1/4 mile times ?

Dont forget peoples, Torque is also a winner for fast times. No good having a crap load of power and a crap torque curve. Sure the HP might pull strong in the top end, but its the Torque that gets you there in the 1st place.

Oh, And WB Cihan... Have missed your intellectual brain of late:-)
Daniel Czechowski
Goo Roo
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 2083
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 02:42 am, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Daniel Clarke wrote on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 09:20 pm:

I would like to see a Back to Back Dyno of Before and After Dump pipes Power Graph. Not for Peak power, but to show HOW the power curve has changed and see what increase in the Torque curve is also.




I'd be willing to get my car on the dyno to see before and after graph. I've had it dynoed last year while it was fully stock, as my dumps are almost fitted, I'll be going to tune my SAFC and stuff soon, I'll ask them to run one with nothing changed just the dumps. I'm be curious too :-)
Callum Finch
Goo Roo
WA
Soarer TT & Corolla

Posts: 2300
Reg: 09-2005

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Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 04:25 pm, by:  Callum Finch (Sigeneat) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Daniel Clarke wrote on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 09:20 pm:

would like to see a Back to Back Dyno of Before and After Dump pipes Power Graph



As well as Daniel getting his comparison i also plan on having my stock dumps replaced soon.
Steel wheel turbos @ 17psi with some aftermarket exhaust system should be a good base to have a look at the difference between stock and aftermarket dumps on a dyno...
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 1045
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 07:57 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds Great guys. That would be awsome to see the real difference in total graphs.
Dean Carsen
Tinkerer
SA
JZZ30 vvti 5 speed

Posts: 71
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:30 pm, by:  Dean Carsen (Deano) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Upload


Excuse the quality.This is a three year old sheet. Its a before/after of an early set of Lews dumps on a stock TT. The Mines went on last.
Dean Carsen
Tinkerer
SA
JZZ30 vvti 5 speed

Posts: 72
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:46 pm, by:  Dean Carsen (Deano) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the extra power is a bonus with the dumps, but i believe the real advantage of them is to help get the heat out. The cast lump that is the standard dump must act like a huge heat sink and heat is what generally kills the stock turbos.
Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
"1JZ no "
JZZ30

Posts: 1607
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Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 01:56 am, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dean, Lews dumps and a complete exhaust system vs standard exhaust system right? Standard boost will have raised by 1-3psi in that instance if the implementation was accompanied by a free flowing intake/BFI setup.

Nice gains either way :-)

--
The heat coming from the cylinder is more important because its potentially detrimental to the turbine to shaft bonding material. A tuned turbocharged engine running optimal advance with a lean mixture will see cylinder temperatures peak at over 4700 degrees F. The dump and front pipe temperature are no where near as important as you can imagine. I would agree though that having them ceramic coated would help reduce underbonnet temps, we have our factory heat shields helping out there already.
Dean Carsen
Tinkerer
SA
JZZ30 vvti 5 speed

Posts: 74
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 05:48 pm, by:  Dean Carsen (Deano) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No the only thing changed was the dumps, the exhaust system was aftermarket but stayed the same.I cant remember the boost gain.
Paul Fitzsimmons
Tinkerer
nsw
'97 soarer

Posts: 83
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 06:10 pm, by:  Paul Fitzsimmons (Oztif) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Upload
Dean Carsen
Tinkerer
SA
JZZ30 vvti 5 speed

Posts: 75
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 07:07 pm, by:  Dean Carsen (Deano) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats the Mines curve.

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