Soarer Central: Archive through March 08, 2007

Soarer Central Mechanical - TT Turbo Talk Turbo response Archive through March 08, 2007

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Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 1069
Reg: 06-2006

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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 11:13 am, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Hey guys,

Can I get some input as to how this turbo would perform on a 1JZ-GTE? It's a Garret T04Z 0.7 A/R Rated at 700-750hp. This is for drag racing only. ie has anyone put one on a 1JZ? when it boosts, etc?

Cheers, Maurice.

Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzs147 92 / 95 jzz31 98' / jzz30 ute92' / uzz30 93'/ 2 X uzz31 92' s

Posts: 1865
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 11:31 am, by: Lew Radbourn (Marlew)

maurice;
about 4500 rpm
depending on ar size of exhaust housing.
but 4500-5000 would be close

Blake Gloyn
Tinkerer
manawatu
soarer JZZ30 TT

Posts: 38
Reg: 02-2006

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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 11:38 am, by: Blake Gloyn (Blakenz)

Maurice,that turbo hits full boost at around 4000 rpm on a 2JZ .this is with a .96 ratio turbine housing(the .7 you mention is the compressor cover) You will need the smallest turbine housing available(still looks physically large tho!)which is approx .63 if you want to put it on the 1JZ...IN MY OPINION. Surprisingly,at boost levels up to 22psi,the TO4Z is only yielding about 20-30rwkW more than the GT 3540 turbos they replaced(on my friends' supras)ie were 360 rwkW, now 390rwkW.The GT3540 turbo punches above its weight.

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
Twin Turbo

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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 01:15 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Thanks guys, this turbo isn't for me it's for a friend who isn't a member here.

We both assumed about 4500-4600 on a 1JZ, another mate has a GT3540 and he hits 14psi by about 4600rpm's in 1st gear.

Thanks guys, I'll be sure to pass on the info.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

Posts: 68
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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 02:02 pm, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

I have a GT35R 1.06 and a mate has a T04Z .96 both on 2JZ's. Mine comes on around 3500 and his comes on around 4000. His Aristo weighs a lot more than my R31, but considering that at the similar boost levels mine is not that much quicker, the T04Z is making a fair bit more power. Also he has a 3.5" exhaust I have a 3". You really need a 3.5" exhaust and gutted cat with these turbos, preferably 4". Expect about 500-600rpm more lag on a 1J.

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
Twin Turbo

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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 02:49 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Thanks for the reply.

Benjamin Burgess
Goo Roo
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL, Toyota Corolla Conquest

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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 10:12 pm, by: Benjamin Burgess (Jampac)

bum dynos arn't too hopeful, graphs of boost curves vs rpm say a million words. I've posted one for a GT3076R on a 1jz and I find it so hard to believe anyones bum dyno claims after seeing what the actual boost levels really are.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

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Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 11:38 pm, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

What are you trying to say? You have one dyno chart of a turbo which Maurice isn't asking about and that makes everyone else's experience inaccurate?

I don't know about you, but most people drive their cars on the road not the dyno. So actual road feel is what matters. Turbo response will vary wildly on the dyno depending on ramp rates used and when the operator floored the accelerator pedal. Specially in an auto where he has to prevent it from down shifting.

Benjamin Burgess
Goo Roo
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL, Toyota Corolla Conquest

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 07:48 am, by: Benjamin Burgess (Jampac)

On the road man. I posted a boost vs rpm graph while my car was driving on the road. I used my engine management to log it. Note I said the words "bum dyno".

I can lock my stall convertor and manually shift on my auto so can see exactly how it responds.

Benjamin Burgess
Goo Roo
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL, Toyota Corolla Conquest

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 07:56 am, by: Benjamin Burgess (Jampac)

Post a graph like this, says a million words.

Chris Davey
Goo Roo
QLD
Corona

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 10:56 am, by: Chris Davey (Chris_davey)

Not discrediting info. that has been given but I tend to agree with Ben. I have done the same logging with my ecu and hypergear TR44 on 1jz. Have been told that a GT35R with 1.06 a/r was making full boost at 3000rpm on an auto 1jz. This is obviously not going to happen unless you are fudging something.

Get a log of boost vs rpm and that shows EXACTLY what is happening.

Ben makes 18psi at about 4000rpm with a turbo that is a lot smaller than a to4z. I would think that the to4z with the smallest turbine a/r would make full boost (in 3rd gear in auto) at around 5000rpm.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 01:11 pm, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

All depends what gear it is in. Who told you that a GT35 with a 1.06 would make 1 bar by 3000 on on a 1J? I have never even heard people claim that low for a 2J! My GT35 1.06 is seriously boosting by 3500 and has 1 bar by 4000 in second gear. Car weighs 1380 and has 4.11 gears. And in first gear is makes enough boost to destroy semi slicks.

This is looking at the recall screen on my boost controller. This is as accurate as a log. (Shows max RPM 4000 max boost 1 bar, when I gas it up to 4000rpm and back off)

I agree the on road logs are the way to go. Dyno logs can be a bit wrong due to ramp rates and the way the dyno operator runs the show. The graph doesn't say a million words unless you tell us what gear it is in, or preferably post one for each gear. Also, heavier cars will spool the turbo up faster, and so will taller diff gears. A heavy car with tall gears is going to spool the same turbo up MUCH quicker than a light car with short gears. There are SOOO many variables.

Chris Davey
Goo Roo
QLD
Corona

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 01:21 pm, by: Chris Davey (Chris_davey)

I know this

Both of our logs were done in 3rd gear with converter locked. Mine are always from 60kms.

My car being 2750lbs with me in it is a hell of a lot lighter than a jzz30 as well as me previously having 4.625:1 diff gears means that my boost threshold would be a lot different to somebody with the same setup as me in a heavier car.

Local fella has that turbo on his car. No max logs just I would think rev it and try and look at guage at the same time ie. not very reliable info.

I am not doubting your figures though as you say they come from something that is measuring it. It is just the above mentioned cases ie. near stock cars with nothing to measure accurately.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

Posts: 74
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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 01:58 pm, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

How do you get it to hold in 3rd gear without downshifting when you gas it?

Chris Davey
Goo Roo
QLD
Corona

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 02:09 pm, by: Chris Davey (Chris_davey)

I am manualised remember

MV shift box. Ben has a Suprastick.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 02:24 pm, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

Those Suprasticks are pretty awesome.

Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
Plug-in Emanage's - Now Available - Tuned to spec
JZZ30

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 05:00 pm, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Dennis, you can make it change to 3rd gear and lock the converter with a switch

Manualising the a340 is pretty simple..
Just don't change gears with the lockup enabled and theres little to worry about by the way of user error.

--
I wouldn't go larger than a GT35R sized compressor /turbine on a 1JZ. I'd change the ex housing size depending on what response vs power character i'm after, other than that its barely relevant. You won't max out a GT35R easily without abrasive flow machining the head, going larger valves, using a custom intake manifold with large throttle body, high lift aftermarket cams etc etc..

In such a case its not worth using a larger turbo, its as simple as that. More lag != more power.

Upgrading to a 1.5jz in the future slightly changes the story.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 07:52 pm, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

Cihan, I already have a lock up converter switch. It does nothing to stop down changes. I like the automatic operation and wouldn't make a manual controller unless it was a good one like the supra stick which also done auto changes.

On my trans, when the switch is enabled, it will automatically unlock when it down changes into 2nd or first. It can only ever lock in 3rd and 4th. This must be a hydraulic circuit in the trans.

I just leave it locked when cruising to save fuel. When I slow down I just put it to second gear and it unlocks so I can stop. It will still go into 1st automatically so acts like its in D but wont go into 3rd. When I get up to speed in second I put it into 3rd where it will automatically lock again. I don't reckon it will hurt the box as long as there are light loads during the 3rd to 4th change. I have a spare trans though

And wouldn't recommend it until I have done a few more KM like this. WOT up shifts would certainly be a bad idea though.

Yea, you can certainly over turbocharge an engine. This why some dyno queens are slow. A 1500rpm power band isn't going to be quick on the street. That said, a T04Z with the smallest rear might still be OK for highway rollons with a raised rev limit. Or drag racing with nitrous assist.

Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
Plug-in Emanage's - Now Available - Tuned to spec
JZZ30

Posts: 1813
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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 09:07 pm, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Dennis Weglehner wrote on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 07:52 pm:
Cihan, I already have a lock up converter switch. It does nothing to stop down changes. I like the automatic operation and wouldn't make a manual controller unless it was a good one like the supra stick which also done auto changes.

On my trans, when the switch is enabled, it will automatically unlock when it down changes into 2nd or first. It can only ever lock in 3rd and 4th. This must be a hydraulic circuit in the trans.

I can't remember the specifics but if you apply 12v to the 2nd gear solenoid it goes into 2nd gear, 3rd gear solenoid goes into thrid, 2nd and 3rd at the same time = 1st and disconnect power and it stays in 4th or something like that im not particularly sure (Ben or Chris would know).
You can just have a 'dyno switch' which cuts off power from the auto ECU, and puts 12v to the 3rd gear solenoid. When the switch is off it runs normal and when you switch it on its 'stuck in third'. Im thinking about putting a time delayed lockup as well, something like 1 second after the gear change lockup enables, or if i cbf working a circuit out ill have a separate switch for lockup like you've done.

This is how the MV auto manualise box works. Its very basic, no hydraulics involved. You can even disconnect the solenoids and use the gearstick for 1st, 3rd and 4th gears. Its in a diagnosis tech doc from Toyota; 1 = 1st, 2 = 3rd and 3 = 4th.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

Posts: 77
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Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 11:58 pm, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

I have all the info on gear changes with the solenoids. There are only 2 shift solenoids. With varying positions they do all 4 gears. It wouldn't be hard to do electronically. There is a fair bit of info on other forums.

I don't know how you can turn the auto ECU off when its the same ECU as the engine one though, it is on my engine anyway.

I was going to make a controller for the converter with a delay too. Designing it would be fairly easy. I couldn't be bothered making it and installing it because I am a lazy prick.

Cihan Aday
Goo Roo
Plug-in Emanage's - Now Available - Tuned to spec
JZZ30

Posts: 1815
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 12:37 am, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Dennis Weglehner wrote on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 11:58 pm:
I don't know how you can turn the auto ECU off when its the same ECU as the engine one though, it is on my engine anyway.

Might need to find out the resistance through the solenoid when its running and put a dummy load to ground when you switch 3rd gear on so theres no error codes if that ends up being a problem.

Really can't say anything more until i try it out for myself, but it doesn't look like there should be a problem. I think its just directly switching the solenoid on and cutting the connection from the ECU to the solenoids at the same time but i haven't really looked into it yet.

Anyone agree?

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

Posts: 78
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Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 01:26 am, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

Might work. But that is assuming the ECU doesn't notice anything else is wrong, EG that the engine is doing the wrong RPM for the speed it is seeing.

Shane Crichton
TryHard
NSW
Cressida Turbo

Posts: 123
Reg: 03-2006

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Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 10:03 am, by: Shane Crichton (1jz747)

Maurice Diggler wrote on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 11:13 am:
Hey guys,

Can I get some input as to how this turbo would perform on a 1JZ-GTE? It's a Garret T04Z 0.7 A/R Rated at 700-750hp. This is for drag racing only. ie has anyone put one on a 1JZ? when it boosts, etc?

Cheers, Maurice.

whats your goal maurice, that would be the better info to have to give you advice.

shane

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 1081
Reg: 06-2006

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Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 10:13 am, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Shane Crichton wrote on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 10:03 am:
whats your goal maurice, that would be the better info to have to give you advice.

shane

Thanks Shane, as I said above this turbo isn't for me, it's for a mate.

I think he wants about 280-300rwkw @ 18psi, the car will mostly be just a street car but I'm sure he will want a bit of drag use in there as well.

Dennis Weglehner
Tinkerer
QLD
R31 Skyline with 2JZGTE and A340E

Posts: 79
Reg: 08-2006

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Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 11:13 am, by: Dennis Weglehner (2jzr31)

T04Z is overkill for that power figure!

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