Soarer Central: Archive through November 04, 2007

Soarer Central Mechanical - TT Turbo Talk $3000 for a single turbo conversion Archive through November 04, 2007

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Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 233
Reg: 01-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 04:33 pm, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

Maurice Diggler wrote on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 03:55 pm:
Where did you get 25psi? It looks like 17psi WITH nitrous as well, I think he scored 240rwkw @ 17psi without NOS.

I mustve skipped something, your right mate my mistake

240 at 17psi, should be interesting to see if these turbos can push the car to over 300rwkw... time will tell

edit: regarding me reading 25psi, I read the dyno as 25psi given the reading of the right most vertical bar (PSI_g) if I am wrong I stand corrected but thats what I thought it was...

Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 234
Reg: 01-2007

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 04:56 pm, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

this video of a 1j corona shows the TR44 making 236rwkw's at 15psi without nos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5QfzvgqTuo

divide this by .86 to get an approximate power figure with a TR44HF and that makes 276kw at 15psi

Not 100% sure where i heard the TR44HF can take 25psi safely but I am fairly sure this was during my conversations with Tao Shangguan prior to me purchasing his turbo kit.

I do remember him mentioning they tried to run the TR44HF at full bost and have it dynoed however the drivetrain in each of the vehicles failed thus he couldnt give me a known power figure.

none the less im fairly sure he said 25psi was the load limit of the turbo but dont quote me on it.

EDIT: found this:

http://www.digi-hardware.com/images/ca18tr44260kws.jpg

CA18det with a TR44 at 22psi made 260rwkw's...
when you take into account the ca is a smaller engine than a 1j, running a smaller turbo than the TR44HF and running 22psi id be pretty confident that with the right application a TR44HF could make over 300rwkws on a 1j..

I think that pretty much confirms that the TR44HF can indeed run over 20psi as well reliably or not im not sure but with a dyno graph showing 22psi on a non hiflowed version im more confident that im right about the TR44Hf handling 25psi...

Gwilym Roberts
Tinkerer
WA
JZA70 R TT

Posts: 12
Reg: 07-2007

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 05:32 pm, by: Gwilym Roberts (Gwilmarlio)

Edward Salem wrote on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 11:18 am:
Gwilym did you end up getting your turbo kit yet?

Mine still hasnt been delivered as theyre still waiting for the manifold to come in >.<
dont know how much more of this I can take, I miss my car and the smoke is bloody embarrasing, everytime I look in my rearview mirror I can see someone staring in my exhaust pipe lol

na mate there taking there dam time I tellya O ordered it on the 5th killing me wating this long I just wanna start fitting it to the car FFS

Gwilym Roberts
Tinkerer
WA
JZA70 R TT

Posts: 13
Reg: 07-2007

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 05:34 pm, by: Gwilym Roberts (Gwilmarlio)

O and Stao told me on the phone it will take 25psi fine

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
Twin Turbo

Posts: 1552
Reg: 06-2006

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 08:55 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Sweet guys, Only time will tell, I will have my set up running this Friday and let you know.

Cheers.

Gwilym Roberts
Tinkerer
WA
JZA70 R TT

Posts: 14
Reg: 07-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 10:13 pm, by: Gwilym Roberts (Gwilmarlio)

good to hear mate good luck with it

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2488
Reg: 03-2006

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 11:04 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

The RPM on Chris Davey's Dyno Charts you have posted were WAY wrong!

He did a log and wasnt seeing full boost until just after 4500rpm and wasnt seeing positive boost until almost 3000rpm with 5psi around the 32-3400 mark.

Yes that is the correct power figure, but definatly not the correct rpm. I only found this out from Chris though, Shame Hypergear forget to mention that.

Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 235
Reg: 01-2007

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Monday, October 29, 2007 - 12:19 am, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

yeah when i saw the dyno graph I thought hypergear were making miracles over there! a huge powerful turbo with the responsivness of the factory twins.... only in my dreams haha...

should pull nicely on the highway though cant wait to get the little beast back on the road I miss the cruises!! I had to back out of the last car cruise before we hit the mountains as I would doubt the turbos wouldve survived the whole trip...

Cihan Aday
Moderator
www.etuner.com.au
JZZ30

Posts: 2216
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, October 29, 2007 - 11:58 am, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Chris has a large stall converter that was unlocked during the dyno session. Revs are completely out.

RE pressure, saying the turbo can run 25psi reliably is misleading. Its completely platform dependent and is really no indicator of performance/capability. The reality is most well matched turbo systems need at least a pressure ratio of 2-2.5 (~1-1.5bar) to be in peak efficiency at a reasonable flow rate.. Pressure/boost comes from restriction, a smaller engine will run higher manifold pressure with the same turbo compressor speed. Ie. 22psi on a CA18 would be like 19psi on a 1JZ, they will make similar power figures at those pressures (put very simply).

Compressor flow capability, AKA 'potential' power output, is a better indicator of 'potential' longevity. If the compressor is rated at 500hp, it should make 500hp minus inefficiency's, with reliability. On a CA18 that might take 27psi, and on a 1JZ it might take 22psi. As long as the pressure ratio is within specs, the compressor is spinning at the same speed and the bearing load/life expectancy should be similar (a little lower on the 1J). If you push 27psi on the 1JZ, it will be out of spec and.. might blow up

Nicely kitted up, with no shortcuts taken a TR44 should make similar power to a TR44HF with better response on a standard engine. IMO the HF is better suited to 1JZ's with the lot (aka Maurices). 500hp on an unopened, auto 1JZ is about 280rwkw and in my opinion, about the limit with a journal bearing turbo before lag becomes a big issue. The HF should make over 300rwkw no problems on a cammed & well looked after 1JZ

The problem with these turbo's is the turbine side of things, i don't have any hard facts because, well there isn't any, but if the design is anything like Garretts then a 0.63 AR with that turbine size might become a restriction on the highflow without a significantly large waste gate (44-60mm) and good manifold design. A 48mm gate flows 60% more gas than an identical design in 38mm, big difference.

Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 238
Reg: 01-2007

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:10 pm, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

still waiting >.<

The blame is not with hypergear however their manifold supplier. Judging by previous feedback on their ebay account their last deliveries took 24 days from the date of purchase. This means we could all still be waiting for another week or so :S

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2536
Reg: 03-2006

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:36 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

Sounds a bit dodgy ......

Stephen Hurst
Tinkerer
Victoria: Epping,Bendigo
Soarer TT

Posts: 36
Reg: 02-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, November 02, 2007 - 02:29 pm, by: Stephen Hurst (Steveo)

This all sounds very interesting.
Please keep us updated with power, reliability etc.

(Retires to contemplate Single vs Twins arguments)

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
TR44HF

Posts: 1576
Reg: 06-2006

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Friday, November 02, 2007 - 02:54 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

My kit took 9 days to arrive, so it's not that bad.

My manifold was a bit rough, one of the welds on the inside (cyl 2 or 5) had to be cleaned up and the whole thing had to be machined, it wasn't flat at all, when put up next to a flat surface you could see it was bowed.

Cheers.

Christian Molenda
TryHard
QLD
T

Posts: 499
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, November 02, 2007 - 02:59 pm, by: Christian Molenda (Christof)

you get what you pay for.

Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 239
Reg: 01-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, November 02, 2007 - 07:05 pm, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

Maurice Diggler wrote on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 02:54 pm:
My kit took 9 days to arrive, so it's not that bad.

My manifold was a bit rough, one of the welds on the inside (cyl 2 or 5) had to be cleaned up and the whole thing had to be machined, it wasn't flat at all, when put up next to a flat surface you could see it was bowed.

Cheers.

9 days!!

I ordered mine in on the 14th and the manifold still hasnt come in yet... wish mine had come in that early then i wouldve already had the new snail in by now...worst thing is the turbos are getting worse and are now on their last leg, as such are smoking heavily and whining very loudly....

i cant take anymore of this sheesh