Soarer Central: Archive through November 15, 2007

Soarer Central Mechanical - TT Turbo Talk $3000 for a single turbo conversion Archive through November 15, 2007

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Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 240
Reg: 01-2007

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 07:17 pm, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

noob question but a brief search didnt really help.

what exactly is a stally and do i need to get this done with my turbo or is it a recommended optional modification?

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single

Posts: 1564
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 07:49 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Cihan Aday wrote on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 06:49 pm:
more like a v6 commodore with cams.

It's funny you say that as the gt30/37r also sounds like a v6,Two things may well be doing this and that's,
1st,I have an exhaust cam gear set to -6 1/2
2nd,The wastegate is plumbed back in to the exhaust.

I think it's the cam gear.But I love the sound.I can't wait to here it come on at 18psi.

My setup show's positive boost at around 2700rpm and full boost(Wastegate pressure not boost controller set to 7.5psi) at 3500rpm.

At it's 7.5psi It come's on very smoove then just keeps on pulling until you get of the fast peddle.Both Daniel clarke and Ryan took it for a spin and was suprise'd with the response at only 7.5psi,They both agree I need more boost but for everyday driving it feels great.Not much different than the stock turbo's on around the 13psi mark.

Until I get it on a dyno and see the power curve,That's when the true figure will tell.

Cihan! do you think I will see much difference with the rpm range to what I see know say on 18psi?

Ryan McDonough
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 TT

Posts: 342
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 08:00 pm, by: Ryan McDonough (Ryan)

Would so have to agree with Jeff, it just pulls all the way through the rev range, with no hint of it falling off like mine does with the twins. Feels just as fast as well.

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2550
Reg: 03-2006

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Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 08:51 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

I think its time i let Ryan have a drive of the Beast

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2551
Reg: 03-2006

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Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 08:54 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

Yeah Jeffs car drives great.. After driving Jeffs and back into mine, there is a noticeable difference in midrange, and when boost comes on, but i guess thats expected.

Bloody nice though, a 3K stally and it would be awsome!

Cihan Aday
Moderator
www.etuner.com.au
JZZ30

Posts: 2223
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 09:10 pm, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Jeff its just the exhaust manifold design mate, nothing to do with the wastegate (its shut!). Some of the exhaust pulses are heard out of synch because of the different runner lengths and joining points to the manifold collector.

v6 commo's sound how they do because the left bank of 3 cylinders is heard separate to the right bank. Being a v6 and having the exhaust run down one side means 3 cylinders take longer to get out the exhaust, their pipe is longer. It sounds out of synch!

If you've ever heard Reepa's car with a 'true twin exhaust system', it sounds like a tractor

All you hear is a 1.25L 3 cylinder from each exhaust system. Same deal with the unequal length exhaust manifold separating the exhaust flows so they don't arrive in a neat harmonic purr, it makes a big difference to what we hear out the back!

18psi should come pretty fast after that hehe!

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single

Posts: 1567
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 09:32 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Cihan Aday wrote on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 09:10 pm:
(its shut!).

Thanks mate!
The wastegate open on WOT......It only sounds like a v6 on open wastegate.

Cihan Aday
Moderator
www.etuner.com.au
JZZ30

Posts: 2224
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 10:26 pm, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Ah i see, Morgans is like that all the time hehe
Sounds kinda cool actually, should get a video of it

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single

Posts: 1568
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 11:38 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

What a fly by? See what I can do.

Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 244
Reg: 01-2007

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Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 06:54 pm, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

well I recieved the turbo a couple of days ago and the manifold just got here today, cant wait to get this baby in

Will call a few places up tomorrow and hopefully get everything underway soon. might give bill a call as the company i was going to have fit it, boostworx wouldnt accept any big jobs until the start of next year ??

Edward Salem
TryHard
SA
Soarer 2.5GT-T

Posts: 245
Reg: 01-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 05:13 pm, by: Edward Salem (Sydeward)

well heres the outcome....

the day after the above post, im driving home from work. The original plan was to call around a couple more places and have the car in the workshop on the day, but as i was on my way back i changed lanes from left to right while I do I hear this crackling noise! i look to my left and i was scraping the side of a new model holden astra quickly i grab hold of the steering wheel and swerve the car back in my lane.

luckily no one was hurt and the damage to both cars is minimal, but none the less it has changed my plans completely. the soarer looked rough as it is when i bought it, the accident really makes it looks worse, i wouldnt really want to drive it around until the whole body is straightened and resprayed. Plus a single turbo soarer really isnt the best daily driver so ive now garaged it and bought myself a cheap but clean VP Commodore as a daily so that I can get around, sort out my upcoming bills pay off the loan and work on my soarer at my own accord...

hope everyone elses plans went better than mine hehe

cant complain though i got off fairly lightly in my opinion given some of the close calls I had in the past and some of the stories my mates have told me! and at least ive got the daily driver ive always wanted though a bit early haha

cant wait to get the soarer back on the road though I miss it already

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
wollongong NSW
GT30/37r Single

Posts: 1619
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 12:54 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Sorry too here this mate!

Justin Camilleri
DieHard
QLD
Had a 85 MZ10, 92 TT, Now 91 TT

Posts: 635
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, November 12, 2007 - 06:37 pm, by: Justin Camilleri (Just)

Jeff Smith wrote on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 07:49 pm:
Until I get it on a dyno and see the power curve,That's when the true figure will tell.

Got a date time frame?

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
wollongong NSW
GT30/37r Single

Posts: 1638
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, November 12, 2007 - 07:03 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Justin! I have posted results here.. http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/51875/214947.html?1194592936

Tao Shangguan
Newbie
Melbourne
TT

Posts: 4
Reg: 11-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 03:47 am, by: Tao Shangguan (Hypergear)

Hi every one. I'm the current director for HyperGear. Well first of all we can build any of our turbos in to ball bearing is customers requires to.

The amount of boost thresh hold of a turbo depends on the sizes of the turbine and compressor wheels. So bigger turbos with bigger wheels can handle more boost and smaller turbos can handle less boost.

Well as manufacture side of view ball bearing turbo's life time is just as similar to journal bear turbos. All turbos are counted as wearable parts in a car, its not like Ball bearing cartridge doesn't wear when its spinning. The spool up rate of a turbo is not solely dependent on its bearing cartridge, It mainly depends on the sizes of its wheels. I have attached a dyno read out of a 300HP Ball bearing T2x turbo vs our 340HP TR28kai journal bearing turbo on same car, same mod, same boost.

Also Ball bearing turbos's oil requirement is very high, some older engines that has some blow to forms sand alike particles in the oil. Those particles will cause the bearing cartridge to fail which starts with a bearing noise.

We make all sort of different types of turbos, the TR44HF model which most of people put them on the 1J and 2J engines, The design requirement for this project is to build a straight line drag race turbo can produce massive amount of torque that is capable of working with Nos, and have a power curve to be as much as a straight line as possible. So you'll feels like ridding on a rocket when you open full throttle.

On the other hand its not designed to have long power band for drifting. But it will be very hard to beat on a straight line. I have attached a dyno read out from a 1.8L engine with a Standard TR44 which shows the nature of it.

And if you do want some thing to be fast in spool, give very wide power band for drifting and drives as a smooth street car we also have the TR43/HF series.

Brad Knudsen
Tinkerer
QLD
TT

Posts: 33
Reg: 10-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 08:34 am, by: Brad Knudsen (Knuddo)

Hi Tao,
Good to have you on Soarer Central.

Could I have some clarification?

Tao Shangguan wrote on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 03:47 am:
Also Ball bearing turbos's oil requirement is very high, some older engines that has some blow to forms sand alike particles in the oil. Those particles will cause the bearing cartridge to fail which starts with a bearing noise.

Are you suggesting Ball Bearing Turbos require more oil than Journal Bearings Turbos?
One of the advantages of a Ball Bearing Turbo is that is uses significantly less oil than the traditional Journal Bearings Turbos.
The ball bearing turbo also has better damping of the Main Shaft which helps in its longevity.
Another advantage the Ball Bearing Turbos have is they can afford a smaller Main Shaft (Lighter) which helps spool times.
But, as you said, spool times are not solely dependent on the bearing setup. Other factors come into play such as aerodynamics & compressor/turbine selection. However from what I’ve scene the ball bearing setup certainly makes a difference.

All in all, its good to see you bring a more affordable setup to the table. Keep up the good work.

Cheers

Tao Shangguan
Newbie
Melbourne
TT

Posts: 5
Reg: 11-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 12:47 pm, by: Tao Shangguan (Hypergear)

Cheers Brad.

Ball bearing turbos use less oil. The bear cartridge doesn't like too much oil. The bad thing about ball bearing turbos is that the oil that is going into the turbo must very clean. any dirt goes into the bearing cartridge can cause it to fail.

We build ball bearing turbos too. And a inline oil filter is required as a part of purchase.

In real life the Ball bearing turbos has faster responds on lower RPM, But they are about the same when spools up. maybe around 200RPMs more advanced.

Sami Ansari
Tinkerer
Victoria
GT-TL Manual

Posts: 62
Reg: 03-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 03:14 pm, by: Sami Ansari (Thesaint)

Do you have any dynos (power/boost vs rpm) using the tr43hf on a 1jz or any other rb25 charts other than the ones on the website at the moment ?
Just curious to see what they look like

Christian Molenda
DieHard
QLD
T

Posts: 509
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 03:35 pm, by: Christian Molenda (Christof)

if anybody wants a true indication on how good these turbo's are, send one up to mark (mr turbo) on the goldcoast and get him to test if for you.

then put it up against one of his own nitrade bearing units or garret units and see the results.

guess this will be the only way to find out for shure the quality of these units

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
wollongong NSW
GT30/37r Single

Posts: 1648
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 05:30 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Tao Shangguan wrote on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 12:47 pm:
The bad thing about ball bearing turbos is that the oil that is going into the turbo must very clean

This is why you drop your oil every 3000k's max.
But at the same time I would also recomend the same for the journal bearing turbos also.....Its called good mantinance.This Is a must anyway,As with these higher power turbos that produce higher temps will brake down the oil much quicker than the smaller turbo's like the ct12a's.
Both ball and journal are fine just keep them well maintained and they should be fine.
As time goe's on,Then the true figure will show.Think about this though Garret has many years of development and has fine tuned there turbo range and has proven itself from time to time.

Tao Shangguan
Tinkerer
Melbourne
TT

Posts: 6
Reg: 11-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 08:34 pm, by: Tao Shangguan (Hypergear)

That is True. Garrett is one of the most experienced turbocharger company around. Most of our turbos has their parts in it and We work with them in Australia as well.

I have attached a TR43 on a Fully stock RB25 which made 230kws on 14PSI leaned out. as you can see the difference on power curve between the TR44x and TR43x.

TR43 RB25 14PSI fuel lean out

TR44 CA

Christian Molenda
DieHard
QLD
T

Posts: 510
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 07:59 am, by: Christian Molenda (Christof)

Tao Shangguan wrote on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 08:34 pm:
I have attached a TR43 on a Fully stock RB25 which made 230kws on 14PSI leaned out. as you can see the difference on power curve between the TR44x and TR43x.

a close friend of mine made this power out of his standard turbo on his rb25 on 16psi.....

That aint saying much