Soarer Central: Archive through January 28, 2008

Soarer Central Mechanical - TT Turbo Talk Another 'cheap' Hypergear conversion.....or is it?.... Archive through January 28, 2008

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Charlie Ters
TryHard
nsw
TT

Posts: 151
Reg: 01-2007

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Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 04:19 pm, by: Charlie Ters (Ul05st)

As you may have read in my earlier post, i did blow up a rear turbo (yaddy yaddy yadda!)....

so i took the gamble and opted for a hypergear tr44HF 1jz kit..... so here is my story about what has appeared.....

so the turbo kit arrived in the mail, it looks so good outside the box! nice turbo, 50mm wastegate etc..... but hang on

, why dont they include the oil drain line..... ill find out later

so i go the GCG and buy 22mm hose for the drain line (which pertek dont make), BTW this hose is worth $250 a metre (as seen in the pic) + the oil drain fitting @ $40 + $40 welding the v band flanges

ok, so a total of $2150 aint bad hey?

ahhhrgghh... spawn of evil! the manifold i gotta admmit looked good..... but lets just say, ALL THE BOLTS WERE OUT OF LINE, WASTGATE PIPE IS TOO LONG etc.....

well, i got alot of paitence, so i didnt mind, i must add you have to buy another $60 bend for the oil feed, but $2110 aint so bad now is it???

(btw, the oil deed bolt supplied is useless...toyota just got it right)

my paitence was comming to a quick end....

....and after me spending 6 hours on modifiying the manifold... (which by the way, i failed)... i snapped

.....

i then got the car towed to a mechanic thankfully when i calmed down .....

i forgot to mention another $55 dollar fitting/hose was needed), anyways im up to now $2300 (including the tow truck)

ok, so know the whole thing is being modified to fit......the bill stands at $1500!!! (my mechanic isnt yhe worlds cheapest, but you should see the modification needed)......

so now what has this costed......

#3800 (+$220 of bits n pieces-- clamps, coolant, oil)..... i still require ecu tune, injectors pump etc etc etc (looking at around the $6k mark..... woot! so much for saving money hey

(a garrett setup may have only cost around $800 more)

....bring on the LAG!

(i await Daniel Clarke saying 'you get what you pay for!

)

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single T

Posts: 1841
Reg: 07-2005

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 05:02 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Hahahaha ...... NO Dan but you get Me! "You get what you pay for" Hahahahaha.......

Sorry mate but that's single conversions for you.
You start out low and end up pulling your hair out!
My setup (Garret Gt30/37r by the way) that I bought from GCG cost me $3850.Manifold fit's perfect!
http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/51875/213575.html?1192714612
All up ended up just under 5k and the piggyback ecu and tune yet to come.

Steven Nanevski
Goo Roo
New South Wales
D Day has almost arrived....

Posts: 1582
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 05:04 pm, by: Steven Nanevski (Imprestik)

Hmmmmm

I would e-mail that bloke around here, the salesman for Hypergear about these manifolds, at least get them to design it a little better.... Good luck with everything man, hopefully works out for you...

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single T

Posts: 1843
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 05:21 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

I agree Steven!
Almost everyone on the forum has said the manifold dosn't fit without serious modifing.
Is the tf44hf turbo a T3 flange? If so buy the turbo with oil and water line's,external wastegate and buy the GCG manifold.It will still work out just as cheap and you will only have to change the wastegate v-band flange.
Oi steven have you been to Niall's in the last few day's?
I left a present on the back window for you.

Christian Molenda
DieHard
QLD
T

Posts: 549
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 05:32 pm, by: Christian Molenda (Christof)

hahah just hope the turbo isnt of the same quality of the rest of the kit.. Glad i went garret and spent the extra money on all quality bits myself.

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2908
Reg: 03-2006

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Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 06:28 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

HAhahahaha What did you Expect??? YA get what ya Pay for!!!

Anyways... I guess it dont matter wether people say it cant be done cheap, it gets proven over and over again...

Cant do a CHEAP conversion with Cheap Setups, as their is a reason why they are cheap,lol...

Seriously, Hope it all gets sorted and is the package you are looking for

Steven Nanevski
Goo Roo
New South Wales
D Day has almost arrived....

Posts: 1583
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 06:57 pm, by: Steven Nanevski (Imprestik)

Jeff Smith wrote on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 05:21 pm:
Oi steven have you been to Niall's in the last few day's?

Nar dude, my old man went today to drop off the new resistor pack that Justin made me, fingers crossed once it gets wired up we have success...

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
TR44HF

Posts: 1692
Reg: 06-2006

Rating: N/A
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Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 07:34 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

The manifold I was supplied (From Hypergear) was warped when I got it, I didn't think it was that bad and put it on the car anyways, in about 6 weeks it had blown out the gasket and I had a huge exhaust leak.

Now the car is back at the shop getting everything stripped off, manifold skimmed and gasket replaced, I emailed HyperGear telling them what was up to be told "Nothing really works, doesn't matter how much youmachine the manifold flange and engine head, its just too hot"

What ****ing bullshit that is, so every single person who has a single turbo has their cheap •••••• gaskets blow out from their warped manifolds? I dont think so.

Ben Burgess? Jeff Smith, are you replacing gaskets every 6 weeks, I dont think so.

Now I need to get a new gasket kit, BOO, I'll have a look on GCG an report back.

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single T

Posts: 1845
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 08:26 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

No gasket blowout's here! I love my setup! No problems here.Cheap flange steal will worp everytime.You might just have to bit the bullet and buy the GCG manifold.

Michael Keen
TryHard
nsw
soarer tt

Posts: 212
Reg: 10-2007

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 09:46 pm, by: Michael Keen (Spoilt)

just build a manifold.. aint that hard, wont have the shinny facter..

if i was to get sum 1j head flanges made up would people be interested?

Christian Molenda
DieHard
QLD
T

Posts: 550
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:14 am, by: Christian Molenda (Christof)

Maurice Diggler wrote on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 07:34 pm:
The manifold I was supplied (From Hypergear) was warped when I got it, I didn't think it was that bad and put it on the car anyways, in about 6 weeks it had blown out the gasket and I had a huge exhaust leak.

Now the car is back at the shop getting everything stripped off, manifold skimmed and gasket replaced, I emailed HyperGear telling them what was up to be told "Nothing really works, doesn't matter how much youmachine the manifold flange and engine head, its just too hot"

What ****ing bullshit that is, so every single person who has a single turbo has their cheap •••••• gaskets blow out from their warped manifolds? I dont think so.

Ben Burgess? Jeff Smith, are you replacing gaskets every 6 weeks, I dont think so.

Now I need to get a new gasket kit, BOO, I'll have a look on GCG an report back.

Use the stock turbo gaskets with your single turbo manifold. The large shiny gasket you get with cheap single manifolds is absolute junk.

Cihan Aday
Moderator
www.etuner.com.au
JZZ30

Posts: 2344
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:32 am, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Christian Molenda wrote on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:14 am:
Use the stock turbo gaskets with your single turbo manifold. The large shiny gasket you get with cheap single manifolds is absolute junk.

Im with Christian on this, Toyota OEM for the win.

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
TR44HF

Posts: 1693
Reg: 06-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 03:50 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Christian Molenda wrote on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:14 am:
Use the stock turbo gaskets with your single turbo manifold. The large shiny gasket you get with cheap single manifolds is absolute junk.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was suitable man, the manifold is being skimmed as we speak, and I've lined up a set of factory gaskets, I didn't know they were suitable as they were two pieces, thanks guys.

Will be getting the bigger more direct 3" dump pipe made up at the same time, Cihan, I'll need a tune fiddle in the next few weeks, bye bye lag.

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single T

Posts: 1850
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 04:36 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Christian Molenda wrote on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:14 am:
Use the stock turbo gaskets with your single turbo manifold. The large shiny gasket you get with cheap single manifolds is absolute junk.

That's what I'm using on mine.OEM for the win.

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single T

Posts: 1851
Reg: 07-2005

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 04:38 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Maurice Diggler wrote on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 03:50 pm:
bye bye lag.

I hope for your sake mate BUT! I don't think lag will be gone.Time will tell.Having a bigger exhaust will help though.

Ben Socratous
Goo Roo
SA
I am the fibreglass/kevlar/carbonfibre king!

Posts: 1655
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 06:06 pm, by: Ben Socratous (Socrates)

Depends on where you go and who your friends are

I'm in the middle of building a single 1.5J and even with buying the block, having extensive head work done and the turbo setup I'm no where near the $6k mark yet! All I need to sort out now is the ecu (probably swapping an emanage and harness for my old rims

)

I got my manifold from here http://stores.ebay.com.au/N-Power ($330 delivered) and see no problems with it, neither does my mate who is a welder. Got a KKR480 internally gated turbo ($675) from autobarn when they had a 20% off performance parts sale, as with the blitz boost controller ($387). Oil supply line I made myself using braided teflon lines and stainless speedflo fittings ($95). Oil return line using Gates high temp racing hose ($58/m), 2 alloy speedflo fittings ($75) and the custom gasket plates were made using 5mm stainless plate (offcuts-free, just took a little while to cut out!) and 2 weld on speedflo nipples ($20). Kevlar heatshielding for oil send and return lines was under $40 all up. All fittings and line sourced from the OG Speed Shop.

Exhaust and fmic pipe mods are chicken feed. I've recommended sooooooooo many people to go see AAA Exhausts that they now give me everything at cost price, if they charge me at all! All materials for dump and fmic pipe mods cost just under $40, and my mate is welding it all together for a carton of beer!

Welder mate's dad has a radiator workshop. Used his trade accounts at a few suppliers. All gaskets, gasket goo and everything else needed to assemble the motor came in under $800, and that included ACL race series head gasket, and multi layered stainless inlet and exhaust gaskets. 2J bottom end was $1200 delivered.

So far I've spent under $5k, and that got me all the above, plus a new water pump, 20L of Toyota red concentrate and a pair of ADR approved race seats. The biggest tip I can offer for doing turbo conversions on the cheap is avoid horsepower in a box like the plague, their trade price is more than retail at most other places!!!

Ben Socratous
Goo Roo
SA
I am the fibreglass/kevlar/carbonfibre king!

Posts: 1656
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 06:07 pm, by: Ben Socratous (Socrates)

Oh, and just fyi... my manifold fits the studs fine and is made from thick walled pipe, not the paper this $hit like some other cheapies

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 2914
Reg: 03-2006

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:10 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

There has been arguments about thick vs thin...

Not in regards to longevity but to which actually gives better response and temperature control.

Jeff Smith
Goo Roo
NSW
GT30/37r Single T

Posts: 1854
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:31 pm, by: Jeff Smith (Mozzie)

Ben Socratous wrote on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 06:06 pm:
mate is welding it all together for a carton of beer!

I have one of those mate's too! It helps to cut cost's.

Cameron Laufer
Tinkerer
Queensland
JZZ30

Posts: 28
Reg: 12-2007

Rating: N/A
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Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 09:41 pm, by: Cameron Laufer (Ivboost)

have you got the oil gallery in your 1j head modified to suit the 2j block?

Charlie Ters
TryHard
nsw
TT

Posts: 152
Reg: 01-2007

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Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 11:51 pm, by: Charlie Ters (Ul05st)

hey maurice, my waste gate pipe was completly chopped and remounted elsewhere on the manifold, let me say, with a 3 inch dump (no tune) im seeing positive boost around the 3100>3400 (@30% throttle) mark.... although it feels a bit laggy, i cant thrash till i sort out the injectors etc....
ill post up pics soon.... (btw, i ditched the vband setup on the turbo and went flanged!, it makes a better seal)

gotta love the flutter

+GFB mach 1 with whistling trumpet... (reminds me of a vl turbo)

must i add that Lews exhaust system has a very nice low profile idle tone, but awakes when pushed

its all good

Ben Socratous
Goo Roo
SA
I am the fibreglass/kevlar/carbonfibre king!

Posts: 1657
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, January 25, 2008 - 06:21 am, by: Ben Socratous (Socrates)

Yeah Cameron, the oil gallery was moved over to suit the 2J block. Dunno how people get away without doing it, overlaying the two, they are no where near each other stock!

Maurice Diggler
Goo Roo
Victoria
TR44HF

Posts: 1697
Reg: 06-2006

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:20 pm, by: Maurice Diggler (Mau_rice)

Hey Charlie, I've got a 2.5" dump pipe, the car is getting stripped, manifold skimmed and a new 3" or 3.5" dump made up as we speak so I will be able to report my boost curve.

Although, even with my 2.5" dump and exhaust leak I see positive boost from 2800rpms+, wait until your tune and then see how you go.

Brian Timms
DieHard
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

Posts: 946
Reg: 12-2006

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Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:36 pm, by: Brian Timms (Turbo_brian)

Maurice Diggler wrote on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 07:34 pm:
I emailed HyperGear telling them what was up to be told "Nothing really works, doesn't matter how much youmachine the manifold flange and engine head, its just too hot"

If a Supplier spoke to me like that after I purchased their products, I would be jumping in my car (or on my pushbike if the car was f_cked because of them) with their part, and a print off of the email, and I would be throwing the part threw the window, waling in, picking the park back up, slamming it threw the front counter, demanding to see the owner or someone high-up, and asking them if this is the sh1t they dish to everyone.

Personally, my bloody is boiling just reading about this, it doesn't matter how cheap something is, it's still got to resemble what it's described to do, or it's mis-advertised, and becomes a fair trading or consumer affairs issue.

If their part has caused you heartache, time off the road, and damages, then you have a right to seek compensation.

It might be cheap and might not last long, but it shouldn't be blowing out turbo or exhaust seals, that's just poor workmanship.

For the price you have gone through, I would have looked at Hybrid high-flow ball bearing CT12a's from GCG, dump pipe from Marlew Performance, custom 3 or 3.25" exhaust, and a nice tune.

Boost would be on by 2,000rpm, and the high-flow should see good responce all the way to 6,800rpm.

B.

Steven Nanevski
Goo Roo
New South Wales
D Day has almost arrived....

Posts: 1601
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, January 28, 2008 - 12:17 am, by: Steven Nanevski (Imprestik)

Brian I agree with you totally, but if that were the case also, manufacturers like Trust, HKS and the like would be all out of business now becuase what would be the point of buying a single HKS setup for 7K when you can buy a Hypergear one for 2.5K.

Obviously becides the R and D the major manufactures have gone through, the quality of work by the top manufacturers is 2nd to none, hence the high price tag.

As Mr Clarke says so many times, what you pay is what you get.

By the time you get your Hypergear setup 2.5K plus installation, then factor in the crappy worksman ship, having to replace certain parts as the above had too, all the time and effort gone into the conversion would have equaled out to the same, if not more expensive then going to Trust or HKS, getting a kit already made up with everything perfectly and getting it installed. Higher price at the start but hey, don't have to deal with all the bullsh1t later on.....

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