Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 11:24 am, by: Brian Timms(Turbo_brian)
Kyle is right, a business is expected to sell a product with a description, and the product is meant to MEET THE ADVERTISED DESCRIPTION.
It doesn't matter where the product is made, how it is comprised, or if the company sources sections of the product from other manufacturers, if the product does not meet the description, or the product causes damage to the purchaser's equipment due to manufacturing neglect, then the company is liable for these issues and concerns.
Hypergear has admitted that it's focus was on the actual turbocharger in the kit, and has admitted sourcing other parts from elsewhere, and these are the parts that are causing the failure of the entire kit, but Hypergear is the supplier of 'The entire Kit', therefore Hyperger is responsible for making sure the kit meets it's product description, and that it doesn't cause purchasers any damage to their vehicles as a direct result of purchasing this product.
From what I have read here, there is genuine concern for the wellbeing of many engines that have been fitted with this product, from over-boosting to gaskets failing.
I would hope that if Hypergear wishes to retain a good name, and build a reputation of quality, they might want to come to the party with these buyers and compensate for labour costs for failed gaskets, and direct replacements and labour costs for waste gates that are not functioning as the product has been described.
From the fact that Tao is constantly in the forums it's obvious he actually cares what the product does, so part of building up a new company is supporting the people who have taken the plunge and purchased the initial products, these people are the ones that will go off and either recommend the product and/or support, or trash your company's name, they will make or break the business, so supporting them is of utter most importance.
Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 05:59 pm, by: Kyle Wathen(Cspot)
There was a post made in another forum which addressed the issues customers have had with the 1JZ kit.
Within 5 minutes Stao had deleted the whole thread!
So he is obviously concerned about word spreading.
Below is what Stao wrote - as you can see he admits that customers were not aware of his defective products and then says the reason the 1JZ kits are dodgy is because Hypergear mainly focus on Nissans?!?!?
"..The main thing that people complaining is the fabrication, and lot of them were not aware about the fabrications when they made the purchase. I have changed the ad and explained all the bits that do require for installation.
We also develop bolt up turbos and high mount manifolds for nissan models we were competiting in some makjor events around Australia and if you have a search on this site or SAU we have had very good success.
It could also becuase our project started with Nissan performance developments, As for the 1J owners we will inform all necessary steps and costs of having the turbo fitted before buying the turbo. "
Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 06:59 pm, by: Jeff Smith(Mozzie)
Charlie Ters wrote on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 12:09 am:
question to jeff smith here..... is it possible that you can buy the same gcg kit you have + install the dump pipe setup for $5000? (ignore the ecu/blanket etc..)
Yes mate! But you will need to do the work yourself.The dump pipe I managed to buy of a forum member and only a small amount of modding was needed....I took it down to my local exhaust guy and he plumbed my wastegate and mounted the dump pipe for me.It cost that much. Also the turbo blanket was part of the $5000. The only drama with the GCG kit was the oil drain speedflow pipe.I spoke to GCG about this and told them you need A 90deg speedflow bend not a straight one.They said they will change it.Also the drain pipe they supply isn't good so ask for Braided line instead.Fitment is very easy.When you buy this kit and install the manifold,Don't make the same mistake as I did.The top row off studs have to come out and one of the studs has to be cut with a hacksaw,See here as this will help you install it yourself and what stud needs to be cut http://soarercentral.com/cgi-bin/sc-forum/discus.cgi?pg=prev&topic=51875&page=214089 so you can mount the manifold. Any other questions about it,Feel free to ask mate.
Monday, February 18, 2008 - 12:22 pm, by: Gavin Smith(Gavs)
What the supplier of this kit SEEMS to be doing is advertising a faulty, defective product in the public domain, which in turn does not meet the product description and purpose of the company's advertisement. This in turn falls under the umbrella term "false advertising".
Having worked in retail for nigh on 8 years, i have learned a thing or three about this, as being a manager, I have been accused of committing this act on a weekly basis by the ill-informed general public, something Kyle and Cihan will probably attest to.
As per regulations, unless otherwise stipulated in a publicly available refund policy, the persons in question with these dodgy kits are legally entitled not only a refund, but cost accumulated from any damage etc.
"...ts good to read up on the thread to find out some knowing issues. The manifold that most of you are using is the manifold from NPower.
From this complete kit our product in it is the Turbocharger and the external wastegate. Every thing else were out sourced.
As for the Manifold gasket as one of the member complaint, Normally we don't give out those gaskets from NPower. Use original Toyota gaskets you shouldn't have issues. We were running 25PSI on our R&D cars and yes normal gasket did got burnt after few laps, We had to cut stainless steel to make our custom gaskets. That’s also one of the reasons that we use V-band...."
And then this...
"... We charge $1000 for complete installation in Mel Vic including all exhaust work. As for the oil return line, Just get that for $30 from Nissan (same as VL turbo’s oil return) and oil return pipe you can get them for $80 / Meter from local Pirtek store....."
"use original toyota gaskets and you shouldn't have any issues" and then "oil return line...just get that from nissan..." come on man, are you you even trying to sell a decent product? If i told a client, "oh yeah, that wall is kinda ok, but when it's installed, it might fall on your staff and customers, just go to Mitre 10 and get some liquid nails", could you even contemplate the ramifications of this?!!!
If YOU source parts from someone/where, then YOU should do testing of said parts, before messing up people's cars. Turning around and making band-aid excuses ".. we have bought a 95 soarer...", seriously, is that going to put Charlie's thousands of wasted dollars, (fixing YOUR product so it works as YOU have falsely advertised it should) back into his pocket? In short, NO!!!!
Charlie, Maurice and any others stung by this company, i personally suggest taking this further, perhaps with the A.C.C.C. I agree wholeheartedly with Cihan, DO NOT muddy this forum selling products that are not only defective but could potentially do serious damage to a person's second greatest investment.
Cihan, Peter, i feel that in the interests of ALL Soarer Central users that a black flag should be put up, as after working in a sales position, i feel this is fair and square unacceptable.
Monday, February 18, 2008 - 10:09 pm, by: Mark O'sullivan(190emerc)
Yeah lucky Gwil doesnt seemed to fussed about it. You would think that they would ask prior. I just had to do all that to my conversion. I spent under 2g and did all the work myself with a mates help. Now to see if it is reliable
Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:13 am, by: Charlie Ters(Ul05st)
Kyle Wathen wrote on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 05:59 pm:
As for the 1J owners we will inform all necessary steps and costs of having the turbo fitted before buying the turbo. "
speaking of test mules..... sorry, but i just had to do this, as this is what it feels like....
there is a difference between a cheap shot, and the truth..... this is the truth.... that is all My biggest insult is that you knew these manifolds were crap..... im hoping the turbo is better (as already dyno testing has given me a grim indication of its life span)
Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 09:12 am, by: Mark Tierney(Mark_t)
Charlie, nice to meet you the other day mate. I've been watching this thread with much dismay. Perhaps you guys don't know but you have a completely valid case to get your money back....at least the mod costs paid for.
These guys are in breach of the Trade Practices act (1974) and you have the right to present your case for compensation in the small claims court - Department of Fair Trading.
Breaches have occurred in Section 52 - Misleading or Deceptive conduct: ..."shall not engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive, or is likely to mislead or deceive" & Section 53: False or Misleading representations: ....(a) falsely represent that goods are of a particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style or model, or have a particular history or particular previous use.
So far there have been incidents of false advertising, representations that this kit is a "Bolt on", inferring that the unit will function, as it was intended, by bolting on the parts they have supplied, continued to sell the kits when they are blatantly aware that there are inherent issues with it. etc etc.
Call dept of Fair Trading in Sydney & maybe for the Melbourne guys, the Vic division. http://www.dft.nsw.gov.au/ Get your receipts together, contact the other guys in the same boat & also drop a line to the Supra guys that are being taken as well. You can present on your own or as a group presentation to the small claims court. This will see definite action, open the path to compensation & also stop these guys from continuing to misrepresent their products.
Dept Fair Trading will ask you to contact them one more time to ask if they will compensate you for all of the extra costs you have incurred. If they wont, then they have a hearing in the small claims court.
You don't have to take it mate. You could also save people inn the future from the same fate.
Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 05:30 pm, by: Gavin Smith(Gavs)
Mark, you are a genius, that's exactly what i was looking for for these guys. I have just dealt with one too many crook after-market sales people and mechanics that i can't stand to sit back and bite my tongue.
I recommend taking action, there is a valid case so by law, people should be reimbursed.
Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 07:40 pm, by: Charlie Ters(Ul05st)
yay, i just got back from the mechanic.... so heres what happened
once again, everything was pulled off....
ok, so i opted for a Turbosmart progate 48mm for these reasons:
A. its proven B. Its aussie C. its proven (not on forum member as test dummies) D. $560 <--- that was a bargain E. hopfully it looks nothing as retarded as the hypergear one we pulled of..... (by the way, there is no way the crosion the wastegate was suffering, would of seen it last with exhaust heat..... so much for R&D hey
i ended up heat wrapping the dump... (now for the xtr turbo blanket...)
a bit of tricky work, after heaps of temptation, i decided to plumb back the waste gate
here is how it looks once most of it is on.....
damn, i need a shift kit ASAP.... through gear changes, the retarding of timing and drop of 4 psi per change causes farting sounds
now let me thank 2 people please.....
Fussy's motor performance in lansvale for his professional work and understanding when i was suffering with such pieces of trouble
and LEW.... YOUR ARE A FU**ING LEGEND!!!!!
2 weeks ago, you encouraged me in a thread to move my boost gauge from the fuel reg, to another source.... on the way from the mechanic, @15psi, my boost gauge let go (the hose).... dude, you saved me a motor there
Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 08:00 pm, by: Jeff Smith(Mozzie)
Good to see things are looking up for you mate! With all that mucking around,modifing you could of had your shift kit with the extra dollers you spent on fixing this bad turbo kit.Shame on Hypergear for this mess.......
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 06:39 pm, by: Charlie Ters(Ul05st)
Jeff Smith wrote on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 06:27 pm:
So what do you think full boost comes on when you drive it?
ill find out tommorow, but from what i felt today.... being bush bearing... the boost isnt constantly built up (like ball bearing)... its more like....nothing...nothing....bam my estimates is around 4000>4500 (it will probably be more )
Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 07:47 am, by: Christian Molenda(Christof)
Id still be a little worried about that fuel mixture. My car did the same thing on the dyno. It was running fine then started to lean out. It got worse with heat. Turned out to be a faulty relay getting hot for the fuel pump (even though it was rated at 40a)
as for the leaking oil drain. Grant Rowan has this problem also and talking to him it is a fault with the turbo... Hope yours isnt, but with what ive seen and heard so far about hypergear, it could just be.
Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 10:07 pm, by: Benjamin Burgess(Jampac)
Still doesn't get any where near a garrett setup. I was making 22psi by 3700rpm. Having a turbo that laggy means you need a higher stall which produces more heat and affects your trap speed. Or you have to use NOS, but you'd be better off just slapping on a T51R in that case.
Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 11:52 pm, by: Charlie Ters(Ul05st)
...... the saga continues..... looks like the car will be going to Unigroup for a tune by the looks of things (i dont trust that spike for some reason... for some reason i dont believe i can afford a motor right now, seeing my bank balance reads $32... )
HEY TAO, I HAVENT FORGOTEN ABOUT YOU ONE BIT.... ill be sending my wastegate to you soon.... Does anyone have a copy of the ORIGINAL HYPERGEAR AD? (not the one that became modified) i need it for reasons i wish not to discuss for now