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Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 04:48 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have searched for over an hour. I am convinced I have missed it.

Where is the tutorial for the replacement of water pump, timing belt, and serpentine belt as part of the 100000km service? I'm sure there is one somewhere. Most of the links I tried to follow within old threads were dead(old ALSC links maybe?)

Otherwise can someone get me started. At the moment all the fluid and filters are done but I just cant figure out where to start on the water pump/timing belt.

If I just slip the serpentine belt off, the tensioner wont spit the dummy or something stupid will it?

It has been a long day. I'm at a loss.
Brian Timms
Goo Roo
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 06:53 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben, where abouts in NSW are you located.

Serpintine is p1ss-easy (done it 4 times in the last week.

At for water pump, timing belt, they are a little more of a pain.

I would also suggest checking the condition of your harmonic balencer (crank pulley) as it's a 2-piece unit and the rubber holding them together tends to seperate after a while, and results in a focking headache (I happen to have a spare NEW crank pulley, I cant get the flippin bolt off.

Also, as for the tensioner spitting the dummy, be careful with the pitted edging of the pulley, if it brakes, there is a chance you will need a new one, and funny enough the VR/VS Commodore pulley is a direct fit.

Feel free to MSN me if you wish.

turbo_cordia@hotmail.com

Brian.
Brian Timms
Goo Roo
New South Wales
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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:00 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben, noticed your in Singleton, you willing to drive to North Sydney area?

Hardest part of the entire process is getting the 22mm crank nut off, from there things are easy :-)

I have a BRAND new serpentine if you want it (went on my car 1 week ago, my car is now (self declared) off the road perminantly), and I have the other part if you need that, also have a new 22mm bolt, as I have been told it's common to 'damage' the bolt in removal.

B.

B.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:09 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm up in Singleton, about 90km west of Newcastle on the New England Hwy.

I aim to "break its back" so to speak tomorrow. After all the fluids, plugs, oil filter and bloody fuel filter I'd had enough this arvo. Basically I couldn't think straight. All the fumes I guess.

I've never owned a twin cam so the plugs took a little figuring out. All my cars (even the turbo rotor) have been a lot simpler. I reckoned I could just take some tension off the serpentine belt and slip it off, but wasn't sure if when the tensioner was released it would move past a "point of no return" and wreck itself or something.

I have seen somewhere on one of the sites someone removed the radiator and shroud to get at the timing gear etc. This apparently made the whole job a lot easier. Today I just couldn't decide where to start.

I'll look at the harmonic balancer tomorrow. I guess I need to remove this to get at the lower timing cover etc, and it will either be good, or bad. I am also guessing that the nut here will be, um, challenging?
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:17 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Man. I type way to slow.

I have a new belt, timing belt, tensioner etc. I have a pulley on its way. I never thought of the 22mm nut though. I'll have to see if the local Toyota has one if I bust it.

I cant drive down, as the car is up on stands with no oil or coolant at the moment.
Brian Timms
Goo Roo
New South Wales
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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:30 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bugger, My car came off the road as of Sunday due to that stupid 22mm bolt.

BEst way to remove the 22mm bolt (and it sounds bad, but it's how my mechy was trying) is to get a 22mm RATTLE GUN socket (flat edge, not a corner gripper) , place on the bold, get a 1.5 meter breakerbar (decent bar, not a supercheap auto one because they snap), then place the breaker bar on the socket, and jam against the ground.

When your happy it's jammed in there, get a good mate to hold it on, and turn the engine over, it should thump once or twice, and then almost start, the almost start is the bolt letting go (hopefully yours lets go, mine still hasn't).

Obviously, to get to the bolt you need to remove the shroud, fan, probably the radiator as well.

Once the bolt is removed, you can slide the crank pulley off and check (it's $310 trade price from Bill Buckle for a new one, or $300 plus delivery from me for the exact same part).

Once the pulley is off, you can remove the lower timing cover, and then you will see the timing belt and tensioner.

Do a search, there is a guide on the timing belt.

Also, the water pump from here should be fairly obvious as well, but if not, add me to MSN and fire me a hit, I should be online :-)

B.
Neil Griffiths
Goo Roo
NSW
I have a Cadillac and a Supercharged Manual V8

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:41 pm, by:  Neil Griffiths (Aussiesc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brian Timms wrote on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:30 pm:

get a good mate to hold it on




Dont you mean a mate you dont like ?

Cause if it brakes,,he's gunna be one sorry mate..hahahahahahhaha
Brian Timms
Goo Roo
New South Wales
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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:43 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My storey with the 22mm bold:

It started with the obvious seperation issue with the crank pulley, so I purchased a crank pulley and 22mm bolt, and the weekend started great.

Removed the radiator, shroud, new serpintine and cooling fan, all taking about 20 minutes (dont this stuff before), and then it was time to start on the 22mm Bolt that is the only hold-back from continueing the job.

Anyway, got into the bolt with the recommendation of using the brute-force of the starter, no good. Got a friends rattle gun, and continued into the thing, still no good. Broke for lunch, put a call into a close friend (mobile mechanic) and went off to the pub (couldn't hurt to drink right??).

Anyway, 4pm comes along, new call to mechanic, and he's still on a job, 6pm comes, more drinks have been had, and the mechy arrives with a .5" drive rattle gun, and gets stuck into this mongrel bolt.

He fails with the task, doesn't have any oxygen left aboard his truck, so tells me "heat and cool the mongrel tomorrow, and call me if your still suffering.

Sunday comes along, friend comes over, wakes me from my hangover state, and we get into the bolt with a new tank of LPG gas.

we hea the bolt up almost red, hit the focker with a rattle gun, no good. We let the mongrel cool, have a few drinks, and hit the focker again with a rattle gun, still no good.

I call my mechy up again, and he comes out with a 1" drive rattle gun, and 1000psi compressor to drive the mongrel, he asks me to heat up the bolt as much as possibly prior to him coming, so we get the LPG out and empty the rest of the tank on the bolt.

Mechy arrives, gets the 'serious sh1t' out and hits the bolt with -40 degree instant freeze, then hits the bitch with a rattle again, still no success.

We heat the mongrel up with the oxy almost red, and hit it, still no success, so we slide the socket over, and put the damn thing a few times to try and move the thread a little (at this point the heat and the crank moving has wrecked the front end bearing seal), but after rattling agaon, we still fail and it's declared a lost battle.

Mechanic leaves feeling sh1t, I put the car together again feeling sh1t, and we fill up the fluids, and put everything back together assuming we havfe not gotten any worse to when we started Friday night.

Comes time to move the car out into the car-space, and we start the car. Guess what, there is now an engine rattle as well. Turns out the heat stuffed the front bearing, melting it, so now (if I get the focking nut off) I have to replace the front bearing as well.

At this point, I have priced the 'worst possible' outcome being a motor rebuilt if we have (and it's likely) damaged the crank shaft, so a new engine rebuild coming in at equal to the price of the entire car when I started 18 months ago.

At this point, my car has been declared as a write-off because of this $7.50 fu cking bolt!!

Anyway, that's my personal story about the 22mm bolt from hell.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:44 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheers Brian.

We used to replace blower shafts in old 53 series detroit diesels in a similar fashion. Illegal as all hell as far as workplace safety was concerned but noone ever offered an alternative.

I'll let you know how I go. I might leave the bump-start-rattle-gun effort to last resort as I'm home alone tomorrow. I'm tempted to weld a bar across it and try it that way.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:45 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Brian Timms wrote on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:43 pm:

couldn't hurt to drink right??).




Famous last words!
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 07:50 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tomorrow I'll start with the 22mm nut. If I get that off I'll do the rest. If I can't. I'll top it up with water and oil and make it Mr Toyota's problem.
Gary Rollason
Tinkerer
Qld
TT

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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 12:38 pm, by:  Gary Rollason (Garyr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Below is the link to a tutorial on the toymods website.
This is a great tutorial, I will also put a link in the tutorials page for it as it could have saved me a lot of time and angst.

http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14262&highlight=replacing+timing+belt+water+pump
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 3467
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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 12:49 pm, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's my writeup on a 2JZ - pretty much the same job on a 1JZ...

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/126/82537.html?1153368669
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 12:50 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheers Gary. I'll go and have a look in a minute.

So far I have everything off and have transferred some bits and pieces across to the new water pump etc. The whole disassembly took me about three hours. Hardest part was the harmonic balancer nut as predicted. I used the "nylon rope in cylinder one" technique I found in some archive(Freeman Tang I think?). This worked exceptionally well and did not require a second person, which is perfect for me.

I am stuck now as the new idler pulley from castle hill toyota hasn't arrived yet. I'm filling in time by polishing my radiator return pipe that I was too lazy to do last time.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 12:53 pm, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bad luck Brian! Guess its really glued in there!

I remember before I started my last cambelt change, it was my biggest worry too - and after destroying my first 22mm socket I was even more worried, but in the end it came off.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 12:54 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Matthew I found that thread last night and it got me started. Pretty big help actually, as it confirms and clears up my original guesses.

Luckily I got my 22mm nut off with only about 15 minutes of strenuous effort. I may now have several hernias!
Brian Timms
Goo Roo
New South Wales
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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 02:13 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's this Nylon rope trick??

I still need to remove my bolt, so anything that could help would be good at this point.

B.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 04:30 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I'm finished. Putting it all back together only took 2 hrs. Starts, runs, does not leak. Will have to go for a drive tomorrow to get things hot and give it a thorough going over.

The Nylon rope trick: get some nylon rope. I used an old bit I had bought from the local hardware for some other task. Remove the plug from cylinder number 1. Rotate the crank to TDC and then go 90degrees past this(clockwise). stuff as much nylon rope through the sparkplug hole as you can. Get a knuckle bar and pipe extension and 22mm socket on to the nut and pull like all buggery. The piston moves back up the bore but cannot compress the rope and stops before TDC, locking up the crank. I could not budge it from under the car so I sat on the drivers guard and braced my feet on the passenger guard and pulled like all buggery. Loud crack and the bolt was 'cracked'. Wind the crank back clockwise until you can pull out the rope.

It goes without saying that you dont want to try this with a hot engine as the nylon would melt.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3280
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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 07:06 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WOnder what the chances of bending a rod whilst doing that could be?
Brian Timms
Goo Roo
New South Wales
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Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 07:39 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm, concidering my engine is pretty much not happy at the moment, I might give this a wack on the weekend, I believe I am already up for a crank, so conrod wont be much harder lol..

B.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Friday, April 11, 2008 - 07:38 am, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Daniel. I had a long hard think about the possible implications of all the methods suggested. Basically I figured that the same force was going to be applied to the crank to undo the bolt, regardless. This way I was able to gently feed the pressure on, as opposed to a violent jolt off the starter.

I also reckon that under 15PSI and full of an explosive mix of fuel and air the rod would have more force exerted on it on the power stroke than I could muster on a bolt.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Friday, April 11, 2008 - 07:42 am, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, Also how did you guys torque the bolt back up again? I have maxxed out my 150lbft torque wrench. (approx 200Nm). I'm 100Nm short of the target figure.

I was thinking of just applying the same method(1m cheater bar) and force (nearly everything I had) to do it up. I don't know any mechanics in this town, to borrow a bigger torque wrench.

I'm open to any better suggestions.
Brian Timms
Goo Roo
New South Wales
TT Soarer Goodness.

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Friday, April 11, 2008 - 08:13 am, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DO NOT use a 1 meter lever to toruq it back up, that will leave you in my position next time it needs to come off, and DO NOT use Locktite.

You need to guage and feel this one out, feel the pressure it's at now, and use a non-torque wreck to apply similar 'extra' force to it.

BTW, what Daniel was saying is that by using starter motor method, you apply the sudden force to the flywheel, which travels down the crank, and into the end where the bolt is, but by filling a cylinder with a foreign object, your actually applying direct pressure to:

A) The Cylinder head
B) The Rod pin
C)The top of the big-end bearings
D) the Conrod

All these items in theory should take the pressure, considering the cylinder usually applies 160+ PSI of pressure to the above listed items, but this pressure is in very quick and small bursts, so quick it's usually a few thousaund times every minute.

Using the Nylon rope method holds sustaintial pressure to the above mentioned items over periods of a few minutes, so it can damage things.

Either way, it's another method people can definately use to get the crank bolt off, it's just further down in the list of 'prefered' methods.

I will try this method over the weekend, and I just happened to have a 3 meter bar for leverage as well which might come in quite handy considering I have a feeling my bolt has damaged thread, locktite, and possibly that cement putty sh1t in it as well.

B.
Ben Lipman
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT manual

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Friday, April 11, 2008 - 05:41 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheers Brian. I ended up just running with the torque wrench and my best effort. No metre long cheater bar. I had a similar thought process to you. I figured I'll just check it after a hundred km and then 500. If it hasn't started to loosen by then, I'm probably in the clear.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

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Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 05:19 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for clearing that up Brian, Exactly my thoughts on the rope thing!

Also, Its also alot easier to " CRack " a bolt loose than to try and load the pressure until it comes loose... Why do you think they invented rattle guns?

I guess to lessen the time your " possibly " bending stuff with the rope trick, would to actually use a rattle gun and the rope trick...

Alternatively you can buy a tool which bolts in where the starter motor is.. It locks the motor in place via the flywheel :-)
Karl Martin
Tinkerer
ACT
TT manual

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 07:16 pm, by:  Karl Martin (Karl) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Daniel, half my engine is on the floor of the garage and the starter motor isn't doing piss all to get the crank bolt, where would you get that tool / how much are they?
Andrew Stewart
Tinkerer
Queensland
Manual GT-T VVT-i Single Turbo

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 09:43 am, by:  Andrew Stewart (Daboom) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

karl, i just had my timing belt replaced, and i had exactly the same issue. it took my mechanic to use a 3/4 inch truckies rattle gun and a 22mm socket to crack it. we even broke a snapon breaker bar. the starter motor would not do anything.
Karl Martin
Tinkerer
ACT
TT manual

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 06:40 pm, by:  Karl Martin (Karl) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HAHA! success me one mate and a 1.5 metre steel pipe got the bastard now should be able finish the job tomorrow.
Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 07:15 pm, by:  Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Karl, was my Bday yesterday and didnt get much time to go through the forums...

Glad to see you got it done! CRazy how these things are locked up!

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