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Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 71
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 09:39 am, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Morning fellas

Picked up my car from S & L yesterday, and after a long day of doug trying a multitude of things, my car still suffers from slight miss firing.

What was tried:
new coil packs
new spark plugs
new power pack (or something like that)
new cables that connect to the coils (i thinkk)
injector clean
and lastly he removed my ECU and cleaned the contacts at which stage it seemed to make a slight difference.

Guys is there something Im missing here?
Can anyone recomend something that i haven't tried - what can cause missfiring?????

Thanking you in advance
Christian Molenda
DieHard
QLD
T

Posts: 764
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 10:07 am, by:  Christian Molenda (Christof) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

could be many things... i would try swapping out the ecu with a known working one.

If not that then i would check fuel filter.
Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 72
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 11:13 am, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Christian,

I was thinking along that path, but from what doug said, its not gonna b easy to get a manual ecu. I'll have a look arround though. Thanks for the tip mate.

Fuel filter has been changed as well
Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 73
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 11:14 am, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

out of curiousity though, if i was to put a UNI chip on it and get it tuned, would they be able to fix the problem with the tuning??
Dave Cazes
TryHard
sa
tt

Posts: 164
Reg: 08-2007

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 11:49 am, by:  Dave Cazes (Cazman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HAve you done an oil change recently?
If so check in the valleys of the spark plugs for oil, it will ground them out and they wont work.
I use a kebab skewer and an old sock on the end, with the plugs still in.
Has worked on many a car, and its good to clean the crap out of there any way
Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 74
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 12:22 pm, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave thanks mate...

Will definately give that a go.

Im thinking that with the several different sets of coil packs and the new sparkies that Doug put in he would have cleaned up a bit, but its definately worth a try.
Kyle Wathen
DieHard
Vic
GTTL

Posts: 562
Reg: 02-2007

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 01:03 pm, by:  Kyle Wathen (Cspot) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Dave Cazes wrote on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 11:49 am:

HAve you done an oil change recently?
If so check in the valleys of the spark plugs for oil, it will ground them out and they wont work.




Why would changing the oil fill the plug valleys?

If there full of oil and grime its usually from oil running down from leaking cam cover gaskets.

Cleaning the valleys out worked on my old soarer, but as you said i'm sure Doug would have thought of that when he changed the spark plugs.

Are they brand new coilpacks, 100% free of cracks?

When does it misfire, around 3500-4000rpm?
Michael Keen
DieHard
nsw
Soarer TT

Posts: 749
Reg: 10-2007

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 05:30 pm, by:  Michael Keen (Spoilt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

try cam sensors? and plugs..also what fuel are you using?please provide more info on when the miss is cheers
Dave Cazes
TryHard
sa
tt

Posts: 167
Reg: 08-2007

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Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 06:26 pm, by:  Dave Cazes (Cazman) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

have you ever watched some apprentice change oil in a twin cam car?
They spill oil everywhere and it goes down the valley
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 3631
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, July 18, 2008 - 06:40 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also as you tip oil into the top of the cam cover, it can gather around the plug seals - if they are in poor condition oil will seep thru to the plugs. Pretty common.
Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 76
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:38 pm, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fellas, all very valid points and im taking them aboard.


Kyle,
Doug tried 3 different sents of coil packs, new ones, second hand ones and the test ones his got.
And your spot on with the rev range. It also does a bit of a burble when steping of the accelelator.

I use BP Ultimate, but i've tried with shell V - same problem.

o2 sensors do anything like this??
Christian Molenda
DieHard
QLD
T

Posts: 767
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, July 18, 2008 - 01:12 pm, by:  Christian Molenda (Christof) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seriously, start at ECU, simple 2 minuite plug in and most likely that.. cam sensor would be last resort.. as not cheap and requires time.
Gary Poloskei
Tinkerer
A.C.T
Soarer TT

Posts: 75
Reg: 01-2008

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Friday, July 18, 2008 - 02:55 pm, by:  Gary Poloskei (Mikrucio) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"new cables that connect to the coils (i thinkk)"

Those cables arent removable. they are part of the loom. The little clips that connect to the coils can break and the contacts inside them wiggle around making a bad connection with the pack.

After the ECU. inspect the clips and the wires with a torch. pull back the plastic tubing as much as possible as-well.

GL!
Kyle Wathen
DieHard
Vic
GTTL

Posts: 566
Reg: 02-2007

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Friday, July 18, 2008 - 04:12 pm, by:  Kyle Wathen (Cspot) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Gary Poloskei wrote on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 02:55 pm:

The little clips that connect to the coils can break and the contacts inside them wiggle around making a bad connection with the pack.




Yep these are always suspect. One of my wires is currently connected to the coil pack via cable ties after the clip broke changing spark plugs last weekend. I should really get a new clip...
Steven Nanevski
Goo Roo
New South Wales
D Day has almost arrived....

Posts: 1777
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, July 18, 2008 - 05:45 pm, by:  Steven Nanevski (Imprestik) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just 1 question dude...

When is the mis happening??

Is it at idle, at light load (ie as you are taking off), or under full load (basically foot to the floor)

If it's under load I suspect it will be fuel related (especially if it's under light load)
Karl Martin
Tinkerer
ACT
TT manual

Posts: 87
Reg: 01-2007

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Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 08:32 am, by:  Karl Martin (Karl) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have had the exact same problem with my car, it only happens under full load from around 3500-4300rpm it seems to pull fine again after that point.

Something to note mine seems to be very fuel dependant I always run 98ron fuel but it is obvious when I get a bad batch because as soon as I pull out of the station sometimes it runs like crap till the tank is done then will run fine again with the next batch. The problem also seems to disappear with a good hit of octane booster.

This is also on a new fuel filter perfect coils new spark plugs and a clean plug valley. I suspect in my case it is a tuning issue as with the minor mods I have I doubt the fuel should be running out. I'm planning on getting a haltech ecu and new fuel system soon enough though so I've decided to just baby it for the time being and look into it when the car is tuned properly
Alen Sadikovic
DieHard
VIC
Soarer GTT

Posts: 539
Reg: 10-2006

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Sunday, July 20, 2008 - 01:00 pm, by:  Alen Sadikovic (Alen87) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

louis, before you spend anymore money trying to figure out whats wrong with it, ask your self these questions first.
does it lose power???
does it lose efficiency?
is it worth fixing??

if not, don't bother. i have the exact same problem and i have been trying to figure it out for the past 2 years or so. it seems that on hot weather it miss fires bad and loses power, where els on colder weather it miss fires less and has less power loss.

after spending $$ and $$ i still couldn't figure it out, and i tried everything. the only thing that fixed it was....ignoring it.

the car has the same efficiency and is running perfectly, so why spend all that money and time for little miss fire???

i avoided thrashing it on hot weather (should do it anyway) and just ignored it in winter.

hope this helps you on your decision for the future, but good luck anyway.

Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 77
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, July 22, 2008 - 01:34 pm, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys I appriciate all the feedback.

Here's the thing, the missfiring happens all during idling and when the car is in nuetral and reving it, but i cant really tell if it happens during driving.

Sometimes though it feels like it hesitates when giving it a bit and sort of lurches, but i've still to see if thats me stuffing up the gear change. Again thats not always happening.

Doug said that from what he saw the car pulls as it should. Now from a fuel point of view, I have to see if its effecting efficiency.

I was thinking that if i get a uni chip put on, they could possibly incoporate the issue in the mapping tuning they do to try and get rid of it.

In terms of the ECU and reseting it, wouldn't that have been the case when Doug pulled it out to clean the connections?? If not then i'll disconnect the battery for 15 mins or so and see if that makes a diff.

Alen, I suppose its not that big a deal, but it just tickles my noggin when i think about it. I know it wasn't always like this and it gets fustrating sometimes
Kyle Wathen
DieHard
Vic
GTTL

Posts: 570
Reg: 02-2007

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Tuesday, July 22, 2008 - 02:39 pm, by:  Kyle Wathen (Cspot) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Louis Angelopoulos wrote on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 - 01:34 pm:

In terms of the ECU and reseting it, wouldn't that have been the case when Doug pulled it out to clean the connections?? If not then i'll disconnect the battery for 15 mins or so and see if that makes a diff.




They may be talking about replacing the capicitors on the ECU? No idea if this would affect a misfire at all, I suck at electronics.

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/285/252586.html?1214821103
Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 78
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 11:32 am, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kyle,

Thanks for the clarification man. Would never have clicked that they were talking about the ECU caps change thing.

Much appreciated mate
Rob Rojo
DieHard
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 670
Reg: 12-2007

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Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 12:18 pm, by:  Rob Rojo (Rob_tt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you try changing the fuel filter?
Louis Angelopoulos
Tinkerer
Vic
Soarer SC250 TT

Posts: 80
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, July 28, 2008 - 03:10 pm, by:  Louis Angelopoulos (Revolution) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rob,

Yep did that too mate. ATM im waiting for a reply from Damian to see if he can help me with the ECU cap change

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