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  Soarer Central * Mechanical - TT * General Mechanical * TT wont rev past 2500...then wants to die...EFI 41? TPS? * Archive through January 29, 2006 Previous Previous    Next Next  

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Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

Posts: 152
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:23 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Ben, I've looked at the wiring at the sensor end...and looks ok, and the ECU TPS input end looks fine too, except that the SAFC wiring is clamped onto it. No obvious damage. The sensor end is pretty tight without much slack, so it's hard to tell if it's melted or anything.

Can someone with a SAFC please do me a favour and go see what voltages you're getting at, ignition only, idle and full throttle? PLEASE!!!!

I can then compare this to my SAFC and see whether wiring is to blame. If the voltages are a good match, it means...

1. SAFC is getting a good reading but is intercepting the voltage and not letting it through to the ECU.
2. ECU is faulty (Got one on the way)
3. One of the other wires from the TPS is faulty ("Please God noooo!")
4. The Soarer heard I was selling it and is pissed at me.

Sound about right?
Mike Biggs
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^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 03:19 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bump...
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 06:29 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi again guys..

I'm sick of this problem...and car...I did a Diag test and there was no EFI41 error anymore, but it was still faulting...Reset the ECU, and the EFI41 came up again after revving it (or trying to!)

This hunk of Toyota metal is stopping me from picking up my new WRX...so I'm kinda P!$$3D OFF!!! Instead of enjoying 206kw of AWD goodness, I'm covered in grease...again.

What could it be...??? I'm getting desperate!!!

I just replaced the spark plugs encase they were missing and causing the ignition system to drop out. It just revs to 2500 and cuts...revs and cuts etc etc. Clean as a whistle to 2500, then cut.

I have removed the SAFC wiring from the ECU loom and checked the TPS wire and it looks nearly untouched. Definately no damage to the wire.

Someone has to know of a sure fire way of finding a fault...especially when Diag has picked it up.

Why the hell is the diag telling me the TPS is faulty when it shouldn't really effect the car revving anyway. Technically the TPS can't cause this issue. I'm told that if you unplug it, the car still revs but not has good. Mine just chucks a spaz!!

Where do the other 3 wires on the TPS go to? Only one goes to the ECU, but which one?

If diag is saying the sensor is faulty, and I replaced it already, then it must be wiring right???

Here's a link to the video I took of it faulting. As you can see and hear, it is revving and I'm not moving my foot. And you can hear a few small backfires too.
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsle80i/MVI_5132.avi

PLEASE HELP...(I hate begging)
Mark Paddick
Goo Roo
ACT
Soarer UZZ31

Posts: 1357
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Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 11:30 pm, by:  Mark Paddick (Sparks) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the TPS one wire is earth. pin 4 Brown (pin1 brown with TRAC)

One wire is +5 volts (regulated, should be rock steady 5 volts) pin 1 blue/red (pin 4 blue/red with TRAC)

One wire is throttle closed switch pin 3 red/black (pin2 red/black with TRAC)

Last one is position indicator; should vary from zero to 5 volts pin 2 yellow (or pin 3 yellow/blue with TRAC)


Check the 5 volts (blue/red wire) with a good multimeter. It should be within +/- 0.1 volt and should not change at all. If not OK check pin 1 of plug T on engine ECU. If not there then replace ECU.
Mike Biggs
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KikArs TT

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 12:13 am, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark...you're a champ. i'll go test these tomorrow. Are these measurements as if I put a multimeter into the loom?

I've got TRC so...

PIN1 (Brown) -should earth ok. If I get a test light on the positive battery terminal and this pin, it should light up?

PIN2 (Blue/Red) -should produce 5volts. Opposite to PIN1. Test light on earth and this pin should show 5volts on multimeter?

PIN3 (Red/Black) -can I test this?

PIN4 (Yellow/Blue) -should be 0volts-5volts? How do I test this? Is this the wire that runs to the ECU? Can I test resistance along this wire?

Thanks Mark...I really appreciate your help!!!

6pack for you if this leads to ta fix.
Mark Paddick
Goo Roo
ACT
Soarer UZZ31

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 08:44 am, by:  Mark Paddick (Sparks) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You've pretty much got it.
The throttle close switch (red/black) should be able to be measured with engine not running with either a multimeter on ohms range or test light from the battery (I prefer the multimeter).
The 5 volts on the blue/red is the critical bit. It comes directly from the ECU and if not there on the ECU pin then the ECU is stuffed (fixable as it is derived from an ordinary 7805 3pin reg in the ECU) This can be checked with ignition on and engine either running or not.
The variable output can be checked with a multimeter and throttle moved from open to closed with ignition on. Should vary from 0 to 5v as throttle is open/closed (not sure which corresponds to which but just getting the variation should be enough to prove operation).


Bugger, don't normally drink....that's how i got myself in the on Friday....I blame Baggs
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
1991 UZZ30 GT4.0 V8

Posts: 2188
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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 09:29 am, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheers
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 01:29 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's the results with the TPS unplugged and the multimeter between the battery and the loom...

PIN 1 (brown-earth) 11.37volts from battery with ignition on.
PIN 2 (yellow with blue) 1.13volts ignition on. 11.81 volts igntion off.
PIN 3 (red with black) 5.95 volts.
PIN 4 (blue with red) 5.12 volts with ignition on.

I tested the voltage coming down to the yellow throttle wire that the SAFC2 connects to. I unplugged it from the ecu and with ignition on it wasn't reading any voltage at all...with the multimeter set to millivolts, it was getting to about 0.005volts. Wasn't really responding to the TPS movement. Is this the issue?. Obviously the voltage here should be changing! The SAFC2 was reading a good voltage last time I checked.

UPDATE: I just tested the TPs signal wire that runs to the ECU again. This time I put the SAFC2 connections back on. With the throttle fully open, the ECU TPS wire was getting little to no voltage, but at the same time the SAFC2 TPS signal wire was getting 3.88volts, which I believe is spot on.

Does this ultimately mean the SAFC2 connection has cut through the wire? Or maybe the ECU plug is faulty? SAFC2 still gets voltage, but doesn't go further than that connection???

Any ideas how to fix it? Strip the wire where it connects and solder the SAFC2 wire on? The signal only stops 2inches from the ECU!!!
Mark Paddick
Goo Roo
ACT
Soarer UZZ31

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 01:55 pm, by:  Mark Paddick (Sparks) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like a dodgy connection. Stripping and soldering is always best.
I'd redo the connections and check volts again with TPS connected.
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 02:14 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cancel that.

I just realised that when that section of loom is removed from the ECU, neither way gets voltage. I tested the SAFC2 loom while it was plugged in, but then unplugged the loom to test the pin at the end of it. Should have realised that.

So if the ECU is still saying TPS fault, and the TPS has been replaced, the TPS wire is fine... then it's either a faulty ECU or ??? Mark any ideas? I have the ECU is my lap right now. Any way of testing it with the multimeter internally?
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 02:33 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With the top of the ECU removed, and looking at it from the loom connection end...I can see a resistor or diode or something, and the resin stuff at the bottom looks dark brown and kinda melted. Nothing else on the boards look like this. It looks like new, except that bit.

It has "100uF 10v" written on it. Is there a chance this has gotten hot and isn't working?

I actually bought a replacement ECU which should arrive tomorrow...so I guess we'll find out then, but I'd love to know now.


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Mark Paddick
Goo Roo
ACT
Soarer UZZ31

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 03:05 pm, by:  Mark Paddick (Sparks) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a classic leaking capacitor. It certainly won't hurt to replace it. Whether or not it is your problem is another story... I don't think it's likely as I think that cap is associated with the igniter drivers.
Unfortunately the only way to test is trial & error, there's no service info available anywhere.
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 03:39 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Man you know a lot Mark!!! It's great.

I think since the ignition system is cutting out, it's possible this is the cause.

Fingers crossed...

Here's my new baby. Fairly basic compared to a Soarer, but that's the idea.


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Mike Biggs
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^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Monday, January 23, 2006 - 10:49 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UPDATE :-)

Call off the search, cancel the circus...it is fixed!!!

A simple ECU replacement fixed everything! And does it have more power now or what?! Must have been going for a while. New TPS needs a bit of adjusting but apart from that it's great!

It's weird because I bought the ECU for $50 3 weeks ago before the problem started...it arrived today in perfect timing!

Thanks to all the guys who helped me!!! It's hard to find people who want to help these days!
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
1991 UZZ30 GT4.0 V8

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:14 am, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thank christ for that!. You would have to be the happiest on the forum at the mo
Mark Paddick
Goo Roo
ACT
Soarer UZZ31

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:16 am, by:  Mark Paddick (Sparks) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good stuff
Take note everyone, these ECUs are starting to give trouble.
I would be interested in looking at the old one...
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:39 am, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don: You better believe it!!! Absolutely stoked.
Mark: Apart from that burnt Cap, it's all good. Must have been shorting out or something, and killing the ignitor. I'll post it to you if you want mate, instead of that beer. You can tinker.
Chris Davey
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QLD
Corona

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:48 am, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great stuff Mike. Although your reasons for fixing may mess a few feathers up with people around here :-)

Well I have learnt some stuff just from reading this thread so that is good also. :-)
Benjamin Burgess
TryHard
NSW
Toyota Soarer GT-TL

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:59 am, by:  Benjamin Burgess (Jampac) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very interesting thread, and definitely puts a new twist on diagnostics whether you can trust the ecu itself. Might be a good excuse to go full standalone :-)
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 01:18 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris...I've always loved the Rex...and now I have an income that can support one. But it's got no power seats, "only" 170kw, no climate, doesn't look as sexy, no FMIC, not as LOUD...but it has door trims without cracks, ECU that works, and does 0-100 in 5.5sec...and the insurance is so cheap compared to the Soarer...then there's fuel...I can buy parts from Repco again instead of Osaka...the list goes on. Don't think for a minute that I won't buy another Soarer in the future though. A nice black, manual, 1999 VVTI model sounds nice. :-)

Ben...It's actually the second time for me that the ECU diag has informed me incorrectly. About a year ago it was saying the water temp sensor was stuffed, but it ended up being Cam sensors!!! Weird...I'm just glad it's all fixed up and running perfect now. I think I have...actually I know I have, replaced every sensor under the bonnet. haha. End of an era.

Hopefully I can find a Subaru club with such good support and friends in it.
Cihan Aday
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30 Twin Turbo

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 09:14 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, is this goodbye? Mike?


Happy to see things worked out mate, goodluck with your new purchase :-)
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
KikArs TT

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:25 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No way...I'll own a Soarer again. I let my girlfriend drive my beast tonight down Mooloolaba, and I was sitting in the passenger seat (watching the boost & speedo haha)...an I realised how sweet a car they are. I never noticed how many people stop and look at them...or maybe it's my front bar?

Let's put it his way...if I could get a brand new JZZ30 Soarer through my work package...I would do it. They never should have stopped making this shape.

It's just that I need 1000% reliabilty...so something new is the way to go unfortunately.

I will get a manual TT for a weekend car in the future...and make it a stripped out track car.

Anyway, I can't leave ALSC until...
1. I sell it.
2. I finish the door trim group buy. Need to put everyones orders in yet.
3. Understand why Skyline drivers won't JUST QUIT! :-)
Damian Ware
Tinkerer
Victoria
Camry

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 08:31 pm, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike great news mate glad its all fixed.

If Mark doesn't want the ECU I would happily take a look.

Or if anyone else has a damaged ECU I would love to pull it down and see if there is anything that can be done with it.
Mark Paddick
Goo Roo
ACT
Soarer UZZ31

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 10:36 pm, by:  Mark Paddick (Sparks) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beat ya
I haven't seen a TT ECU before so have no idea what I'm in for. If it's like the V8 ones it will be dry joints and crook caps.
Next one's yours
Damian Ware
Tinkerer
Victoria
Camry

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Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 08:39 am, by:  Damian Ware (Frozenpod) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep due to inconsistent operation that is a likely cause. Real bugger to diagnose remotely though.

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