Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 04:35 pm, by: Paul Ince(Incey)
I must have done pretty well with my increases, from what you are all saying.
I had 127 rwkw when I bought the car then put on exhaust, pod air, fmic, emanage blue, bleed valve, 14psi and now have 191 rwkw.
I reckon the exhaust made the biggest difference from stock. Much, much more noticeable increase than any of the other mods. I wish I had been able to afford a dyno check at each change but it didn't happen. Prices exhaust 1800 (turbo back stainless) pod 40 fmic (secondhand) 400 and 650 to fit (some new pipework req) emanage blue (secondhand) 450 and 1000 to fit and tune bleed valve 40ish
additional 64rwkw = $4400
could have gone higher boost but am still on stock turbos that are 110 000 k's old
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 05:04 pm, by: Rob Rojo(Rob_tt)
$1000 to fit and tune a EMB? thats crazy! you can buy a plug in harness for around $250.00 which makes installation no more than a 5 minute process and should not be more than 2 hours on the dyno so roughly another $250.00.
It should have made more power than that with a full system. Mine had a 3" cat back only, pod, FMIC and an untuned EMB and made 217.9rwkw @14psi What sort of exhaust system is it?
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 08:47 pm, by: Paul Ince(Incey)
I was a bit surprised at the price too, but there isn't much to choose from up here. It was 350 odd to fit and the rest was tuning. The workshop has a good rep so I went with it. I didn't know about the harness though. Maybe more research next time.
Cihan says on his site that with similar mods to expect 190 so I was pretty happy. Did you notice how low it was stock? You did really well to get 218.
I dunno if it makes any difference but the tuner here said that they don't adjust their figures for temp and humidity so it is what it is on the day. The exhaust is; From flange behind turbo: 3" stainless, bit of flex, more 3", redback highflow metal cat, splits to twin 2.5" stainless, redback offcentre stainless mufflers and tips. all mandrel bent apparently. The fitter said it would handle whatever I put into engine upgrades but is probably a bit overboard for what I have at the moment. Sounds awesome though, I like the gurgle on gear changes (auto) for some reason.
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 09:24 pm, by: Rob Rojo(Rob_tt)
Sounds like a good system but If you get the chance to post up a copy of the dyno graph it would be interesting to see. I might be wrong but from having my car on the dyno a few times you can see If the exhaust is restrictive the power curve flattens around 5500rpm upwards.
Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 09:43 pm, by: Paul Ince(Incey)
Rob, Thanks for taking an interest. I have read a few of your posts and I'm interested in your opinion on this. Michael, Sorry for hijacking your thread a bit but there may be some good info here for you too.
Here's the latest dyno report. Red line is when I bought the car and blue is after the listed mods.
Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 11:17 pm, by: Rob Rojo(Rob_tt)
Yeah there may be an issue as Damian has mentioned. The factory ECU usually runs around 14.5:1 to around 3000rpm then drops to mid 11's then to mids 10's in the high rpm. but your shows a lot less from 2500rpm right to limiter?
Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 08:05 am, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
My car was running flat 10 AFR's with minimal mods . Ive seen quite alot of soarers on Dyno days that are stock, running flat 10 afr's also . Pretty normal for 9-10psi of boost and stock.
Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 09:17 am, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Daniel, a stock soarer will not run that rich from factory.
I have seen with ECUs that are on the way out they the engine runs richer. Almost all soarers now have this issue to some degree.
But with a good working ECU and sensors they do not run this rich.
Example of a TT I have was mine own car. It ran high 10's at redline and after I rebuilt the ECU it ran low 11's at redline and it was a little leaner in the mid range as well.
I cant remember the exact details but mine was still running 13.5:1 just after it came onto full boost.
I have only tested my own TT in detail on this but I have tested quite a number of V8's.
The V8 ECU's have a similar result and I have done back to back testing with a wideband with similar atmospheric conditions to find they run a more optimal AFR after being rebuilt.
I have seen V8's ECU run 10.5:1 which after being rebuilt ran 12:1 and some have even run 12.5:1 and there was a noticable improvement in HP.
Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 11:26 am, by: Richard Loring(Richzx)
When you say rebuilt what do you mean? Have you just replaced capacitors or replaced all the internals or what? I'm curious to know if it's worthwhile getting it done. Do you do it and what does it cost?
Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 03:52 pm, by: Paul Ince(Incey)
Damian, Do you reckon if I found out what the something else was that it would make any difference now that the EMB is on. I don't think the exhaust that I bought the car with was stock, it was certainly had it though..maybe to the point it was worse than a stock one in good nick. Rob, Do you think there's room for improvement with the current mods? I will be getting some steel wheels next but that is still a way off.
Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 04:37 pm, by: Rob Rojo(Rob_tt)
First thing I would do is try another ECU or have yours repaired the AFR graph only does to 10:1 it could have been running even less than that. After that some new dump pipes and some more boost should see over 220rwkw. Hi Flow Steel Wheel turbos are good but its a lot of money to spend. How much power are you after?
Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 05:24 pm, by: Paul Ince(Incey)
Hahaha, How much power are you after? That's the question isn't it. I was originally hoping for 200 rwkw but that's not far away now. I know I would be able to get heaps with steelies and more boost but then maybe run into issues with fuel. Like you said big dollars. If there is an existing problem that, when fixed, may show cheap power gains that would be good for now. Would I have to go to a toyota dealer to get the ecu checked or is there something easy I could do myself? I have seen some second hand ones for sale here but they may have the same problems, I can't imagine a new one being very cheap.
The minister has tightened up the budget now that I have completed the first round of mods.
I asked the exhaust fitter at the time of fitting about dumps and he said they probably wouldn't make too much difference as I have 3" pipe behind the back turbo anyway. He may not be all that well informed about TT soarer stuff though.
Dumps would probably run to 1000 fitted eh? For a potential gain of ????
Friday, April 24, 2009 - 01:02 pm, by: Jeff Bedsor(Jeff_bedsor)
I really don't know why everyone is so hung up on replacing the standard dumps. As I have said before, I have standard dumps with a 3 inch exhaust with a very high flowing cat and am making 260 KW. So do you really need to get them changed to make good power? The only reason I want to go to the UAS dumps is that I want to see if I can push 300KW out of the stock turbo's.
Friday, April 24, 2009 - 01:36 pm, by: Rob Rojo(Rob_tt)
I think the difference between the stock dumps and Aftermarket dumps is not so much the power output but the amount of boost needed to reach those figures. My car was 254rwkw@ 17.5psi Daniels was 259rwkw @ 17.5psi Correct me if im wrong but your running more than 20psi to get 260rwkw?
I'd like to see how much you can get with the UAS dumps and your current setup. should be over 270rwkw or so.
Friday, April 24, 2009 - 01:47 pm, by: Jeff Bedsor(Jeff_bedsor)
Rob you're correct, about 20psi. I am porting out the standard exhaust manifolds to see what gains there are, it's amazing how much you can take out of them. I'll post some pics once I'm done. The same will happen to the intake manifold, plus a few other bits I have planned.Money is a bit tight ATM so I thought I would see what improvements I could make for the least cost. I think 300 KW is achievable, we'll see....
Scott Wilkes TryHard Tasmania 92 TT Factory Manual
Friday, April 24, 2009 - 01:50 pm, by: Scott Wilkes(Scottywilkes)
when you say porting the manifolds, are you talking about the manifold/runners from the block to the turbos? Ive always thought they would be VERY restrictive due to there design, il be fitting dumps soon so might have to have alook at them see how much i can free them up
Friday, April 24, 2009 - 02:17 pm, by: Jeff Bedsor(Jeff_bedsor)
Scott - they are very restrictive, I'll see if I can get one finished this weekend and post up a pic. I've spent about 3 hours on it so far,probably needs that much again to get it how I want it. I reckon 10-15% more flow is possible.
Scott Wilkes TryHard Tasmania 92 TT Factory Manual
Friday, April 24, 2009 - 09:22 pm, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Guys I am able to give a precise answer to this for the TT's. You will probably have better fuel economy, a little more power but more importantly your ECU will keep working.
For the V8's the motor runs a little better mixtures and produces a little more power. I don't have dyno print outs of results but I have done my own testing with a wideband.
IMO I would fix anything not operating correctly, this is no different to replacing worn shockers. Sure you can still drive the car with shockers that are on the way out but is it as good as it should be? This is probably even more important for anyone who has or is considering modifications.
Rebuilding an ECU really depends what state it is in.
Most people only do something about it when the car will not run or runs really badly and throws up code. There is generally considerable damage to the ECU in this situation and the repairs can be extensive and sometimes they are beyond repair.
If you get to it early before there is a major problem it is a lot cheaper.
Please be aware that in the badly damaged ECU's not all faults can be repaired which is another good reason to do something sooner rather than later.
Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 08:03 am, by: Blake Gloyn(Blakenz)
one of the benefits of aftermarket dumps is that it gets rid of the heat faster, away from the ceramic turbines. heat is one of the two main factors that causes them to let go. Jeff, my turbo manifolds are ported, but i suspect that the good flow increases are restricted as soon as it hits the turbine housing(small). hence.. i think that there would be good power gains from sending our exhaust housings to Andrew Sanders? at Specialised Power Porting, but i have refrained from doing this because then i would not be comfortable chasing the "stock turbo" title.
Monday, April 27, 2009 - 09:56 pm, by: Manual Kalianis(Manual_kalianis)
I went from a totally stock 1995 Soarer 2.5 twin turbo. Running 158RWKW @ 9psi before the exhaust. And then it jumped to 196RWKW @12psi when I put an aftermarket exhaust on. I still have stock dump pipes aswell. But now have a hiflow Hurricane cat, and a 3 inch system into twin 2 1/2 inch out the back with 2 resonators and two mufflers.
So the people saying only 6 to 10RWKW change with an aftermarket exhaust installed is way off the mark. I got 38RWKW and an extra 3psi of natural boost.
Installing my TSI in the next 2 weeks just before the Soarer dyno day at unigroup hopefully. Will probably only tune it for 16psi for the moment and hoping for anything north of 225RWKW and I'll be happy for now!
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