Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 11:23 pm, by: Boris Siljanoski(Z2tt)
Hi Costa,
Since Taiwan produces good products, is there any chance of getting GT3076R Copies from there at a cheaper price than a genuine Garrett? That is if the quality is as good.
Costa Tsimiklis Goo Roo Victoria 386.2 rwkw Soon T51R or GT4094
Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 01:37 am, by: Costa Tsimiklis(Driftshop)
Boris, no idea on how good any of these copy turbos are mate. Ask Kinugawa on eBay and see what they can offer? I will only sell you a Genuine Garret Australia turbo if you want to buy one from me. I dont want to vouch for a copy turbo unless I've had it inspected and checked out by an engineer and done my own testing.
GT3076R is cheap anyway, - why spend $800 on a maybe turbo when you can spend around $1550 and get some thing that is spot on with warranty?
GT3076 is pretty small, I would be going for a 35/40 setup on a 1JZ with a 0.63 exhaust housing. 300rwkw gets boring pretty quickly once you have done these type of mods. Always good to have more headroom..
Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 12:40 pm, by: Jacob Thomas(Jacob_t)
just something to note, on the site it says source:japan. This can be interpreted a few ways. ie they are being shipped from japan (which it turns out they're not) or that this company purchases overstock from toyota japan and are now selling on.
Also, i've been told that export destined cars had steel wheel ct12 turbos. If these turbos do have steel exhaust wheels it could have been excess stock from export vehicles?
Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 01:02 pm, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Costa Tsimiklis wrote on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 05:56 pm:
Hey Damien,
Anything in particular that stands out? I havent been in the shop to check between these pics and a pair that I have recently removed.
What stands out is the box, packaging and lack of toyota part number on each item in the plastic bag for starters. It has been a while since I have seen the turbos in the flesh but something is a miss I just cant put my finger on it.
I have seen a few copies of toyota items including rear tailights which were identicle in every way at first glance but not orignal toyota.
They came packed just like these turbos cant remember the name on the box.
With closer inspection when you touched the black plastic on the rear lights it became obvious that they were very weak and brittle. The wiring looms were poor quality again not OEM toyota parts or of toyota quality and the globes were an unknown brand not what toyota use.
From the outside you wouldn't know the difference and I certainly didn't pick it until I saw them in the flesh.
Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 01:56 pm, by: Brendan Hax(Chaser_94)
Jacob,all C12A turbos are ceramic rear wheel, even the exports. Its only the 2jz C12B turbo's which japan made in steelwheeled for the USA market. If these rear wheels are steel it is 100% definate that they are copies.
Friday, October 29, 2010 - 02:26 pm, by: Jeff Bedsor(Jeff_bedsor)
OK, sorry it took a while to get the son’s good pickup magnet, the exhaust wheels are definitely non magnetic (the shaft isn’t magnetic either) What surprised me though is that the intake wheels are either non or very low magnetic, so I guess they are an alloy. The shaft on the intake side is strongly magnetic though.
Damian Ware wrote on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 01:02 pm:
What stands out is the box, packaging and lack of toyota part number on each item in the plastic bag for starters
Seriously Damien, is that the best you can come up with, first you reckon they are copies and there's a number of reason why and then that's all you got......
Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 07:42 am, by: Cihan Aday(Cihan)
If memory serves me correctly the OEM ceramic turbine wheels have a tinge of red/ceramic colour in them. Then again they could just as easily have been stained from years of heat and gas exposure.
The type of metal alloy used in some high temperature applications is not very magnetic ie. exhaust valves - so the magnet test isn't really the best way to tell (not that i haven't whipped a magnet out before). But in saying that, the ceramic end of stockies isn't magnetic at all.
Also if i remember correctly the OEM ceramic turbine wheel & shaft are fused one piece.
I have a few CT12a turbine/shafts about 10 mins away, can check it out for you this arvo Jeff.
What turbos is that for? The stock ones. I was just thinking is there a way to make a custom manifold to make the most of the stock turbos.
I remember the 1J VVTI's one is very restrictive and there are the "Expreme" Manifolds that help out a lot, was thinking something the same for the Twin Turbo manifold, having something that improves on the stock setup, pretty much how there are custom dumps.
Or other than porting is that as good as your going to get?
Costa Tsimiklis Goo Roo Victoria 386.2 rwkw Soon T51R or GT4094
Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 01:36 am, by: Costa Tsimiklis(Driftshop)
Boris, the stock turbos are pretty bad for any serious performance gains even with after market manifolds. Seb's manifold link is for GT25 turbo setups, pretty good considering custom manifolds in steam pipe will cost at least that sale price in materials with proper merge collectors. Considering the cost of new manifolds, dumps, inlet and so forth, you would be better off with a twin GT setup using that Nozz manifold. You could even use -5 GTR turbos and get some serious mumbo happening on the 1JZ!
I've had stock manifolds ported and the gain was around 10-15cfm. I have the charts etc. With a ported head, espeically the exhaust ports, and cams, the gains from having the exhaust part of the head ported is around 25-30cfm which is considerable considering the stock flow is around 115-125 cfm!
Jeff, sounds like they maybe the real deal! Ceramic is not magnetic in normal circumstances and especially in turbo applications. The compressor wheel is aluminium and the shaft would be Inconel. The front nut will be tool steel or just steel. The ceramic wheel is bonded inside the Inconel shaft, right where the rear oil seal is. I'm not sure on what kind of bonding process it is, but it could be combination of a mechanical bond using high temperatures to shrink the shaft onto the turbine wheel and/or a combination a ceramic/metal adhesive. The common cause of rear turbine wheel failure is over boosting causing the shaft to spin higher than it is reliable design rate and too much heat, from the increased performance/cycling.
Regarding exhaust turbine colors, it does vary on fuel and more importantly combustion / turbo temp. Red/brown wheels are typically Diesel, White wheels are CNG/LPG and Black is Petrol from the turbos I've worked on.
Get them installed mate, see how you go! Super happy times if they are OEM and last like OEM!
Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 09:10 am, by: Scott Wilkes(Scottywilkes)
cheap and nasty woolworths fuel? We get many cars coming in running rough, pull the plugs and the insulator is coloured red from the cheap 91 fuel from woolworths. Change fuel no more problems haha.
Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 12:38 pm, by: Costa Tsimiklis(Driftshop)
Cool pic Cihan. That is probably the natural color of the ceramic wheel under heat. Comparing Jeff's pic, the wheel is grey with a tinge of orange/brown on the blades.
I've only seen blackish wheels on CT12s when I have bothered to notice. The color could have been from over fueling and/or oil contamination from leaking seals.
Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 09:40 pm, by: Jeff Bedsor(Jeff_bedsor)
Robb, no still going strong, these were just to tempting. The main roads got me a couple of weeks ago, long list of things to fix, so it's coming off the road permanently. I'll strip it right out and see what it will do.
Monday, November 01, 2010 - 01:00 am, by: Damian Ware(Frozenpod)
Jeff Bedsor wrote on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 02:26 pm:
Seriously Damien, is that the best you can come up with, first you reckon they are copies and there's a number of reason why and then that's all you got......
I said there was a few details and at the end of the day with turbos details make the difference. 3 reasons I listed are more than enough to raise suspecion.
Are they OEM toyota units that have then been repackaged, possibly but why would anyone bother particularly if they are selling multiple sets...
There certainly is a market of building OEM copies. I have seen copies of both toyota and mazda parts. Combine this with non toyota packaging equals they are probably copies.
As to the turbos as I said above something is a miss but it has been a while. As per my post and others after seeing used turbos or rebuilds they might not look exactly the same as brand new units.
If they are OEM that is great and at that price worth the risk.
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 05:45 pm, by: Josh Simpson(Joshy)
Do you guys think that the "rebuilt" units they are offering are worth the prize, or should I get a local company to hybird mine up with some steel wheels instead?
From the sounds of it fresh stocks CT12a can seem to handle quite a lot (especially with talks of being in the 20psi range)
Thursday, November 04, 2010 - 08:45 am, by: Jeff Bedsor(Jeff_bedsor)
Josh Simpson wrote on Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 05:45 pm:
Are they OEM toyota units that have then been repackaged, possibly but why would anyone bother particularly if they are selling multiple sets...
When you think that they are up to 20 years old, isn't it possible that the original package fell apart. What does the original packaging look like Damian, have you ever seen it? They only had 2 sets of new ones listed and 10 used sets, the way I understand it is that used can mean that they may be unused but damaged or worn in some way, so they might be OK as well. I am satisfied that these are genuine Toyota, I will put them side by side and compare details when I remove the old ones just to satisfy the cynics.
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