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  Soarer Central * Mechanical - TT * General Mechanical * TT wont rev past 2500...then wants to die...EFI 41? TPS? * Archive through January 10, 2006 Previous Previous    Next Next  

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Mike Biggs
Tinkerer
^ I am not a tinkerer!!
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Posts: 68
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:36 am, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi guys.

Cruising home from Noosa yesterday and noticed a dead spot developing in my acceleration. It got worse and worse until it felt like my pedal wasn't attached to the throttle anymore. Everytime I'd slow down for a round about then try to accelerate around it, I would need to pump the pedal hoping it would go. I nearly stopped many times but thank God at the last minute it would accelerate again..quite suddenly. I got it home and ran diag. It showed EFI 41...I reset the ECU earlier this week so the code should be fresh.

EFI-41 is Throttle Position Sensor which makes sense. The throttle is moving but it just isn't getting fuel or spark...or both. It gets to about 2500rpm, and without moving my foot off, will just rev itself as it cuts in and out.

I have a SAFC2 fitted and the weird thing is that it shows the Throttle position working on the screen. So that would tell me the the TPS is fine...??? Not sure.

I am just wondering if there is anyone that has a spare TPS I can buy or borrow? Or where do I buy a new one? Is part number 89452-22080 correct for a 1991 TT?

I'm going to try the TPS resistance test once I can get a meter tonight, but is there anything else I can try to get me a 100% confirmation on the TPS. I need to order one today so I get it early next week.

Thanks for your help guys. :-)
Mike Biggs
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Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:30 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've tested the resistance of the TPS and at closed throttle across VTA & E2 the resistance read around 5000ohms...the guide says it should be between 200 & 800 ohms, and Between IDL & E2 it should be equal to or below 2500ohms and it was about 4000ohms...so there's the problem!! Do you agree???

Also, the voltage at closed should be 0.46volts, mines at .385volts according to my SAFC2.

Does this provide 100% evidence that it's the TPS. I don't wish to spend $160 and wait a week if it's not the TPS.

:-)
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

Posts: 842
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Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:00 am, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the car uses map sensor so from past experience disconnecting the tps the engine should still run and be driveable.i dont know if this will work on a soarer but its worth a try.
Mike Biggs
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Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:17 am, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Muzzy.

I just sent you a novel...I mean email. haha :-)

I understand what you're saying, but diag keeps saying EFI41 ie: TPS...could diag be wrong?

Anyone else had/having this problem?
Mike Biggs
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Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:38 am, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Got your email. I'll try it with the TPS unplugged. I thought it was a pretty vital part of the setup...letting the ECU know how far planted you've got the pedal.

Anything is worth a try though. Thanks Muzzy!! Champion.

Here's the possible culprit just encase anyone was wondering what it looks like...


Upload
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

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Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:45 am, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it is a part the ecu uses to determine its fuel calculations.but i dont know if having it disconnected for testing would have any effect on the auto box give it a try and see what happens.
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

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Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:46 am, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

btw if i dont forget ill check the values in my safc tomorrow..
Mike Biggs
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Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:53 am, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You my friend are a champion!! Thanks for your time mate. Greatly appreciated!
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
GT-TL

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Friday, January 06, 2006 - 09:57 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just drove my beast back from my mates house where we managed to limp it to the other day

It woulnd't get passed 1500rpm which equals about 40km/h max...not real fun driving 200rwkw at 5% throttle and 1500rpm along the main street of Maroochydore.

Can someone please confirm what my VTA - E2 resistance should be at rest? It is reading around 4000ohms, and I've read it should be 200-800ohms, but I also have a table saying it should be 1200-6000ohms...which is correct???

The engine basically gets to 1500rpm and then acts like it's going to stall then revs up again etc etc, almost like an anti-stall. Near impossible to drive.

What could be causing this???? I thought if it was TPS that it would only fail when it got to a certain throttle position, but it seems to be based on rpm...although the diag says EFI 41 (=TPS)!?!?!? "What tha?"

The SAFC2 is also reading .465volts instead of the .36volts it was reading the other day...so the volts seem fine now.

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!

This is really pissing me off. I just spent $5000 getting a new front, bodykit, headlights, radiator, FM intercooler, paint, and on it's first big trip another stupid sensor or something dies!
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

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Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 01:21 am, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike
i checked my safc settings on idle im getting 0.480 volts

on wot im getting 3.6v so if your readings are near these the tps should be fine.

im guessing its something else

when you say it doesnt rev past 1500 whats the nosies from engine like ? have you considered faulty fuel ecu? try bridging the diag port terminals so pump runs at 12 volts all the time.

you just gotto work through a list and tick each one off as you go.

could be anything mate i dont think just the tps failing would stop the engine revving like you say.its either not getting fuel or proper spark.

like i said go through the systems and sensors see how you go.
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

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Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 01:22 am, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just sounds like she is starving for fuel...
Cihan Aday
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30 Twin Turbo

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Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 03:55 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike, could it be something to do with an RPM related sensor? im not sure how the ecu determines the engine RPM, crank sensor or what ever it uses, but it could be a safety thing for when it doesnt get a reading?

The problem with this suggestion is, youve stated that the problem got progressively worse.

Id say the fuel ecu bridging could be a good shot, although they usually cause issues when it needs to change to 12 volts, and that doesnt happen until u boot it.

Dead fuel pump?
Dead or damaged coil/s?

Mike Biggs
TryHard
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GT-TL

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Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 06:22 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate the support.

Manny has mentioned in an email that a disconnected TPS didn't cause these symptoms, but a faulty MAP(pressure) sensor has. OR the intercepting SAFC@ wiring from the MAP sensor to the ECU could have faulted.


On my list to check...
-MAP sensor
-SAFC2 MAP sensor interceptor wiring
-Fuel ECU bridge. I've tried this already, but will try again.
-Crank Position Sensor. Have a spare one here so I'll compare the resistance of the the 2.
-Cam position sensors.
-Coils. Just bought 6 replacements(cheers Muzzy)...just encase.
-Ignitor


Any idea were I'd find a list of sensor resistances. I'll just run around the engine bay testing stuff.

Thanks again fellas! :-)
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 01:34 am, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

did you get the coils yet mate?

im no expert on this but the cam angle sensors could they cause this also?

have you also tried running the engine without the safc to rule out a problem with that?
Cihan Aday
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30 Twin Turbo

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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 12:01 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cam angle and position sensor, i thought it was the same thing Muzz?
Mike Biggs
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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 12:34 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Muz...havent got the coils yet.

I've had to replace the cam angle sensors before...so maybe the second hand replacements have failed. Any way I can test them? If you've ever replaced them, you'll know that they suck to change.

I have a Crank Angle sensor here that I bought when I replaced the cam ones. Any way of testing that?

How exactly do I run the engine with out the SAFC2? I'd have to reattached the MAP wire (isn't it run through SAFC as apposed to being tapped into?). Can I reset the SAFC2 settings? Can I just unplugged it at the loom adapter?

I tried moving the TPS around on it's adjustments, and it didn't seem to effect the fault. It still dies at 1500rpm. But why is diagnostics pointing to it if it's something else?!?!?!?

Thanks guys! :-)
Cihan Aday
TryHard
Victoria
JZZ30 Twin Turbo

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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 05:57 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only thing the SAFC alters is the MAP sensor output to the ECU. If you bypass this wire it is essentially 'unplugged'. If you unplug it at the loom, that should do it..

After doing so, if the car cranks over and dies right after, you know you've disconnected the MAP sensor by accident.
Mike Biggs
TryHard
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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 06:56 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I remember having to cut that wire and basically run it through the SAFC2.

I'll disconnect both the MAP in and MAP out wires from the SAFC and reconnect them together.

What should the MAP sensor voltages be at idle etc via the SAFC2? Can someone please have a look for me?

Can someone also check the resistance of there coils? Or point me in the right direction where it could be listed?

Thanks fellas.
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 09:15 pm, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i dont think its possible to check the coils.

ill check the map sensor voltage tomorrow mate and let u know.
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 09:46 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh really? I suppose they don't make a circuit do they? They are open even when on a spark plug...

I'll just what until yours arrive...any idea when they are due dude?

MAP sensor voltage is really appreciated mate!
Mustafa Akgul
DieHard
NSW
JZZ30-GTTL

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Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 10:17 pm, by:  Mustafa Akgul (Muzzy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike sent them thursday morning,so i thaught you would get them by friday but seems you will get them tomorrow.

anyways you will get there mate just be patient :-)
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
GT-TL

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Monday, January 09, 2006 - 08:52 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok...(takes breath)..

Got the coils, and replaced them along with brand new coil clips...very happily replaced them all in 15minutes...still wont go passed 1500-2500 rpm.

I went around testing sensors by unplugging them (each was plugged back in before the next sensor was tried)...

1. Unplugged the throttle position sensor.
2. Unplugged traction control controller.
3. Unplugged traction control position sensor.
4. Unplugged crank position sensor (didn't start).
5. Unplugged idle control valve
6. Unplugged MAP sensor (chugged real bad!)
7. Unplugged SAFC2 and reconnected MAP sensor wires.

So left to try we have...
1. 2x Cam position sensors.
2. Ignitor (My money is on this)...Can I test this somehow???
3. ECU...Noooooooooooo!!!
4. Something stupid like temperature sensors etc...???

It is basically cutting the ignition at 2000rpm, so I don't think it's a fueling issue. As the engine drops in revs you can hear the engine kind of sucking through the pod filter...not sure if that's an issue.

Any ideas?

Has anyone got an ignitor I could borrow/buy?
Paul Fitzsimmons
Tinkerer
nsw
'97 soarer

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Monday, January 09, 2006 - 08:59 pm, by:  Paul Fitzsimmons (Oztif) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm just impressed you knew where all those things were.
Mike Biggs
TryHard
^ I am not a TryHard! Stop teasing!
GT-TL

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Monday, January 09, 2006 - 09:21 pm, by:  Mike Biggs (Proph3t) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After you've replaced them all before...you'll know where they are are!! haha :-)

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