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Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3597
Reg: 04-2006

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Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 12:04 am, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last Saturday at Mallala after a warm up lap in the third session of the day I dropped the hammer and got up to speed. As I went down the main straight and got on the gas in third (6800 rpm shift according to the log) I heard a tapping of knocking noise. I rolled another 100-200m to figure out if it was speed related or engine speed related. It was definitely engine revs related. In the pits there was a definite tap, tap, tap and it sounded like it was coming from the right rear top of the engine. (as best I could tell).

I have the cam covers off and cant see anything obvious. There are no wear marks or witness marks on the cams or surrounding area.

My next step tomorrow night is to pull the plugs and see if one looks different to the rest. I am going to ask around for a bore scope to borrow to have a look inside. If I cant see anything obvious then I will have absolutely no idea what to do next.

Happy for any suggestions from those in the know.
What next?

There are some pics in my build thread:
http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/263854/263229.html?1384777219#POST540419
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12571
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 12:10 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably way wrong, but how does the harmonic balancer look?
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI

Posts: 2376
Reg: 03-2007

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Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 05:31 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hope i am wrong ...small end??
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3599
Reg: 04-2006

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Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 07:21 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Harmonic balancer 'looks' all right Peter.

Dave- not sure how the check that without pulling it completely apart...LOL

I turned the motor over via the crank pulley this afternoon with some light. Could not see anything out of the ordinary. There was also no discernible sticking points as I turned it over.

The shims are all still sitting under the cam lobes, and there is no metal debris anywhere in the top of the head.

I pulled the plugs this arvo and they are all identical.

I borrowed a bore scope/camera snake/whatever it is called from a bloke at work. I have inspected the tops of all pistons and there is no debris or witness marks etc. All the valves seem to be moving freely, and they are all intact as best I can see through the camera.

I could have sworn the noise was coming from the top of the motor, and towards the fire wall.

I might have to put it all back together and start it again to try and narrow it down. At least I know it isn't a valve or part there of bouncing around on the top of the piston.
Shane Haverkamp
Goo Roo
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 1027
Reg: 10-2007

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Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 07:55 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

checked/dumped the oil?

any metalic flakes in it?
Matt Newman
DieHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 825
Reg: 11-2007

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Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 10:16 pm, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

checked the torque on the cam cap bolts?
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3602
Reg: 04-2006

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Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 04:53 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll add them to the list. About to head out to the shed and start working through it.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3603
Reg: 04-2006

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Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 07:06 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt - do you know what torque the cam cap bolts should be? I don't have a manual with the 1JZ in it.

14ft lbs sound right? Google reckons it is. Another manual has "200". 200kg/cm is 14.4 ft lbs. Gotta be it right?
Matthew Salkeld
TryHard
South Australia
1JZ powered 180sx

Posts: 120
Reg: 07-2008

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Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 08:49 pm, by:  Matthew Salkeld (Munkymatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep. 20Nm for the bearing cap bolts

(20Nm = 200kgf.cm = 14ft.lbf)
Matt Newman
DieHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 826
Reg: 11-2007

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Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 11:33 pm, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/resources/SUPRA_MKIV/Torque_Specs1.pdf

there you go Ben has all the motor specs
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3605
Reg: 04-2006

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 - 02:00 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Compression test results are in:

Cylinder 123456
dry psi190200195180175130
wet psi205210205190180160


I am assuming there is something going on in number six. Sort of confirms my thoughts the noise was coming from the rear end of the motor.

Now to figure out what it is...
Shane Haverkamp
Goo Roo
nsw
soarer TT

Posts: 1028
Reg: 10-2007

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 - 03:11 pm, by:  Shane Haverkamp (Havabeer) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well if the wet PSI is in creasing doesn't that normally mean a piston ring problem?
Matt Newman
DieHard
QLD
soarer tt

Posts: 828
Reg: 11-2007

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 - 03:41 pm, by:  Matt Newman (Soarersrock) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bugger was thinking it looked ok until i saw number 6 lol. with the wet test jumping that high on number 6 it sounds like it could be the case. but i wouldn't have thought that buggered piston rings would have caused a tapping noise.
Ben Lipman
Goo Roo
SA
Soarer TT manual, plus TT track car, plus a spare shell

Posts: 3609
Reg: 04-2006

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Thursday, November 21, 2013 - 04:50 pm, by:  Ben Lipman (Ben12a) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have been told it could be a cracked piston skirt. Apparently they make a tap tap noise before the break completely.

But yeah, could also be a piston ring.

I am well out of my depth and going on internet speculation mostly.

Matt - I was getting a good feeling as we went along. The numbers seemed to be the same as everyone else has reported, and they were all pretty close. Then we got to ole number six...

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