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Jon Millerchip
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 11
Reg: 01-2006

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Monday, February 13, 2006 - 01:17 pm, by:  Jon Millerchip (Chip) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the odd occasion my TT will blow a little white/grey smoke at start up. Is this serious or is it normal to do it on the odd occasion? (Probably only once every 2000kms on average)PS. Its not steam.
Chris Davey
TryHard
QLD
Corona

Posts: 376
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, February 13, 2006 - 02:05 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

valve stem seals.

Not a big deal.

May do it after you have given it a bit and then slowed down.
Jon Millerchip
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer TT

Posts: 12
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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 01:01 pm, by:  Jon Millerchip (Chip) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Chris, funnily enough, it seems to do it when I have just been putting around and then turn off the engine. I come back 10 mins later and it might happen
Craig Austin
Tinkerer
qld
TT

Posts: 49
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 03:36 pm, by:  Craig Austin (Fha57) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

turbo seals???????????
Chris Davey
TryHard
QLD
Corona

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 04:13 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

when my turbo seals went it definitely wasn't occasional smoke! I was puffing billy! :-)
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 216
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 05:03 pm, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mine did this quite a fair bit, My car is in the shop getting Turbos rebuilt, the rear turbo was a bit wrecked and i had a cracked wastegate....Once i get my car on the road again, ill see if it still produces white smoke when i start the car after driving...if it does then i can defientley say its the Valve Stem Seals, if no smoke then i know it coulda been the turbos?

Although mine had being doing it for the last 12mths so youd think it would have to be valve stem seals wouldnt you?
Jon Millerchip
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer TT

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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:23 pm, by:  Jon Millerchip (Chip) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought valve stem seals would be a blueish coloured smoke? What produces white smoke?
Chris Davey
TryHard
QLD
Corona

Posts: 399
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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:38 pm, by:  Chris Davey (Chris_davey) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey you are right. Although it is easy to mistake blue for white smoke IMO.

On startup, would it happen to be cold mornings? Sounds like condensation in the exhaust.
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 224
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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 04:12 pm, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It wouldnt be cold mornings (condensation), he just said it even happens 10mins after car has been turned off, and then started again...which exactley would happen with mine.
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have LESS Soarers than Hayden :-(

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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 04:23 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Jon Millerchip wrote on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:23 pm:

What produces white smoke?




Premo NZ green........usually
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 / uzz30/ uzz31

Posts: 566
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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 06:22 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don
the cheech of NZ
who is the chong?????????

Dave Hart
TryHard
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 321
Reg: 08-2005

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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 06:29 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He left and moved to Brissie.
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have LESS Soarers than Hayden :-(

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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 06:40 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dat be true!
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 / uzz30/ uzz31

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Friday, February 17, 2006 - 06:42 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hehehehehehehe
WHO ME

never
hahahhaha
Todd Williams
Tinkerer
WA
JZA70 R (BLMQZ)

Posts: 34
Reg: 09-2005

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Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 08:01 pm, by:  Todd Williams (Jza70_r) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a bit disappointing guys, especially coming from the bigger players on this forum...

on topic: This subject often comes up and never seems to get a final answer which is very frustrating, especially for those that are experiencing the same problem.

my 1JZ suffers quite badly from this problem.
never from cold start does it smoke,
never when driving does it smoke (from what i can see anyway)
the smoke colour out of sunlight is predominately white.
only with a warm motor will it smoke.
the smoke is never so thick you cant see through it.
the smoke can sometimes be so thin it is mistook for condensation/steam.
to induce the smoking, go for a hard run then stop the car at any given time, even after a cool down period, and let idle for a few minutes.
smoke starts to woft out the exhaust, and will continue to until a stab of the go pedal is applied.
if your lucky it will stop until the next time you stop otherwise sometimes it will start back up again.
i can drive for a week without noticing smoke.
other times i notice it every set of traffic lights i stop at.
i know of at least 5 other people that experience the same problem and none of them have answers either.
everyone assumes its turbos. but why doesn't it smoke all the time?
i know more JZA70 supras that do it, than i do JZZ30 soarers.

The last owner claims he has already carried out valve stem seal replacement on my motor, and i know for a fact it is running the oldschool steel wheel conversion, but that doesn't necessarily mean the seals were replaced at the same time does it?

all suggestions welcome.
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 227
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 08:27 am, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You even get White Smoke come out while at traffic lights etc?

Usually that would be turbos/seals but i guess you will never really know unless you get it checked out by a professional.

My car would never start blowing white smoke at traffic lights or on idle, only when you started the car after been driving. My car would do it alot when i was leaving work to, on very hot days it would still do it, so rules out condensation.

If Valve Stem Seals are suposed to be bluish smoke, that should rule them out aswell? although i was always lead to believe it was whitish smoke?

Once my car is on the road again, i will let you all know, if the white smoke stops on starting up the car, If it does then it would be likely be worn Turbos/Seals. If car still produces white smoke, Well i got no idea.

What else produces white smoke on start up besides condenstaion,turbos/seals, and valve stem seals (which are suposed to be bluish smoke?)

Would a car running rich produce white smoke on start up? i know my car runs rich with all the smoke that comes out when i punch it.

If any of you guys find the answers please let us know, because as Todd said there never seems to be a fix.
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 / uzz30/ uzz31

Posts: 574
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Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 08:53 am, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shane
white or blueish as you put it
will be oil from some were mate
and black as we all know is fuel
Shane McInnes
TryHard
NSW
JZZ30 GT-TL Manual

Posts: 229
Reg: 07-2005

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Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 09:26 am, by:  Shane McInnes (Soarin_tt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep just gotta find where though, thats the fun bit.

Im getting abit of work done to my car, so seals here and there are getting replaced, i hope that fixes the prob, but we will soon find out.
Brett Harrison
Tinkerer
QLD
JZZ30

Posts: 78
Reg: 09-2005

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Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 05:50 pm, by:  Brett Harrison (Bretto) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shane has there been any closure on this thus far?

What you describe, is exactly what I'm experiencing
Daniel Czechowski
TryHard
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 446
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 06:35 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Same here. Odd occasion, sometimes on a hot day after driving for 5 mins and then stopping and then starting. It may smoke for 5 mins or so and then I wont see it for a week. Happens occasionally when I give it a lot of boot too for a long period of time (such as a cruise) then it becomes a thick white smoke. Pretty much all of the stuff you guys described above.

Now I hope it is not the trubos, but if it is, generally what is the probability of the intake wheel failing, as opposed to the exhaust one? Is it 50/50 or what?

What's valve stem seals? Is that anything serious?
Travis Bentley
TryHard
WA
TT

Posts: 112
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Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 07:30 pm, by:  Travis Bentley (Kinny) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha, i get it too but no where near the extent of Daniel.

I rarely notice it, however after driving about 50km on a 38 degree day when i arrived i smelt a bit of oil so i left it running for about 3mins, anyway after coming back like 45mins later i started it up and hot a heap of white smoke coming out the exhaust, lasted about 5seconds.

I was pretty worried thinking its turbos, but yeah it doesnt blow under boost or anything (tho they sound like sirens when cold).
Todd Williams
Tinkerer
WA
JZA70 R (BLMQZ)

Posts: 41
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Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 07:36 pm, by:  Todd Williams (Jza70_r) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i did a interesting little test the other day... pulled up at a mates house and it was smoking... i thought ill see how long it will smoke for and if it gets any worst or better... after a few minutes it was still the same... now i know when you give it a few hard revs it stops... so i did that then waited again for a few minutes and it was all clear.

only thing that popped into mind was maybe the seals leak under hard vacuum (deceleration) and 'pop back into place' under pressure.
Daniel Czechowski
TryHard
Western Australia
Soarer GT-T

Posts: 448
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Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 07:48 pm, by:  Daniel Czechowski (Dan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys, maybe we are worrying too much over nothing huh? <----- I'm a natural optimist


Todd Williams wrote on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 07:36 pm:

only thing that popped into mind was maybe the seals leak under hard vacuum (deceleration) and 'pop back into place' under pressure.




I noticed that when it's been smoking while it's idle for a minute or two, the smoke will disappear when under load and you boost it (it will puff out a big cloud of smoke at first though to clear its throat or something) isn't that right Travis? You saw me on that car park, it cleared away after I took off. Then again when Ken was follwing me on the freeway on-ramp when I was boosting it he did get smoked though so hmmmm...
Craig Austin
Tinkerer
qld
TT

Posts: 66
Reg: 10-2005

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Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 11:17 pm, by:  Craig Austin (Fha57) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well if your blowing white smoke whilst on boost ide definantly have to say worn turbo seals. i'm no expert but it sure sounds that way.
Shane Bradley
Newbie
WA
Supra JZA70 Limited

Posts: 4
Reg: 11-2005

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 03:45 pm, by:  Shane Bradley (Endless) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah i get the same, no noticeable white smoke while on boost.. but after a drive and once the car warms up to optimal temp or i have been boosting and then come to a stop i notice white/blue smoke coming out.

It's been doing it ever since i got the car but got progressively worse, i've put it down to turbo seals as i'm quite sure that's what it is so i'm going to get another pair put in.

I'll let you guys know after i get them done, but probably wont be for a while.
Brett Harrison
Tinkerer
QLD
JZZ30

Posts: 79
Reg: 09-2005

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 05:29 pm, by:  Brett Harrison (Bretto) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mine only does it when hot, and when I ve been using some boost for a while. Never under boost, and only at idle. What all you fellas describe is the same as me basically. and doesn't use any oil, and never happens on start up, only get the old black stuff.
Cihan Aday
DieHard
Victoria
JZZ30

Posts: 580
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:06 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think all of the scenarios are different.

If it puffs white/blue for about 1 second on startup, from what ive gathered its probably that the engines overfilled with oil. After parking it on an angle or thrashing it, the bore of an end cylinder could somehow get a bit of 'extra' oil on it. edit: Now that i think about it, this might not be it. Though i guess its quiet possible.

If it smokes bluish continuously on the occasion (subsiding when pushed or otherwise) and puffs a nice long one (white blue) on startup - thats an issue, and it probably means the pistons/plugs/chamber are being wet by oil. Most likely a gasket somewhere letting oil seep in through the head. You can check buy pulling out your plugs and seeing if they are covered with oil. You might be able to see the oil pooled on one or more of the cylinders.

If it smokes blue on cold startup, then subsides - then its probably valve stem seals. As they get worse it will happen when you back off at the lights. From what people say its usually a tinge, a dark blue color.

If it doesnt smoke when cold or cold started, and smokes lightish blue after a thrashing - its got to be turbos. They will either be very quiet if its a seal. If its a crack that reduces oil pressure to the turbo (ie. before the return), we can assume the turbo/s will be louder than usual. If its turbo's, it wont always stop smoking.. probably just keep going until you turn the engine off and let it cool down for a few hours.

From personal experience, good turbos can fail as well, the thin oil seal just gives way if its been inactive for a while and it spools nice etc, but blows bellowful amounts of smoke even though the turbos sounds like new.

Also, white smoke = concentrated oil smoke ie. concentrated blue smoke! Blue tinged smoke is better than white smoke by a long shot. If it isnt oil, its either condensation or a blown head gasket.

A possible cure to most of the problems above, bar one, is oil weight. Try moving up an oil weight - use something more viscid. I think these engines are supposed to run on 10-30, but after 15 years, that hot rating of 30W is probably too low for my liking. Also, synthetic oils have a tendency to slip past seals, so using a semi might also be the answer.
I know its more of a band aid solution, but it might save you an EPA ticket.

Sorry another long post, but i was thinking about it recently. I might be wrong, thats why im posting - open to suggestions as always.

Cheers,
Cihan.
Cihan Aday
DieHard
Victoria
JZZ30

Posts: 581
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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:10 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lew, is there a way that the cam cover gaskets, if leaking, could pool oil into the cylinders?
Because i changed the plugs on a friends TT and cylinders 2 and 5 had oil pooled on the pistons. The car has 2 of the above symptoms i described, it smokes on startup and smokes continuously on some occasions until you boot it. It also smokes under light throttle just putting about traffic, until again, you gas it - thats when it clears up.

Cihan.
Travis Bentley
TryHard
WA
TT

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:12 pm, by:  Travis Bentley (Kinny) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cihan - You are the man, that was very concise, Thanks!!!
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 / uzz30/ uzz31

Posts: 658
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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:29 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cihan
don't think so mate;
the oil will pool around the spark plug
don't forget the spark plug has a sealing washer on it.
and there is compression under the spark plug
and the oil sitting around the plug has no pressure so if the washer around the spark plug was to leak (not really possible unless you had a loose plug)the compression would blow the oil away from the plug and also the silicon spark plug stem seals(on the coils) should stop the bulk of the oil getting down there(SHOULD)
so in summary mate
Not a hope in hell
Cheers
Lew
Cihan Aday
DieHard
Victoria
JZZ30

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:39 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lew, so maybe a crack in the head somewhere mate? or maybe valve stem seals on those particular cylinders?

I recall it getting worse with thinner oil. Engine idles fine, power is fine.

How about the PCB valve, where the hell is that on the 1JZ? Ive read about it but never cleaned it out or replaced it..

Cheers boss,
Cihan.
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 / uzz30/ uzz31

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:45 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the valve you are lookin for is on the passenger side cam cover and has the "S" shaped 8 mm hose comming off it and going to the intake manifold
Is there a catch can on this car???
if there is throw it to the house and put the original pipe back on to the intake pipes .
catch cans are a load of wank .
if you need one then it is time to replace the engine cause it is rooted
Cihan Aday
DieHard
Victoria
JZZ30

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 06:54 pm, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah k i see, just checked it out.. I thought it would be that one. The only 'valve' coming off the topend.

My mates car with the oil problem has no catch can.. What do you think it is? I mean oil on the piston has to be serious to some degree by my stretch of imgination.

Cheers,
Cihan.
Lew Radbourn
Trader
Queensland
jzz30 / uzz30/ uzz31

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 07:07 pm, by:  Lew Radbourn (Marlew) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just check all areas that will feed oil into the intake area
if there is no sign of oil in any areas then it may be oil rings
take the throttle body off and have a good look inside the intake manifold and see if oil is in there
that would be the last stop for the oil to be if there is a fault with any oil supplies from other areas of the motor
if there is no signs of oil
i would go oil rings

don't forget the japaneses are not big on servicing there cars correctly and also the engine has had a hard life (in australia)
so it is possible the oil rings are shot
why i say australia is that turbo cars a new to this enviroment and thay are cheap so we tend to get it a push the crap out of them and thinking thay are bullett proof (and us as well)
we tend to forget that this car is 15 yrs old
so things are a little worn now
Nathan Stewart
Tinkerer
WA
TT 5sp

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Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 09:02 pm, by:  Nathan Stewart (Nathan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok im with Chian im thnking the viscosity of the oil may be the problem too.
I have been running 15w-60 and have not had any problems, then a few weeks ago changed to a 15w-40 and within a few days had this problem. Once again was going for a drive (was quite a hard drive), pulled into a maccas drive thru and a lot of smoke started pouring out of the exausht as it was idiling. When i left the drive through I gave it a good rev and blew a LOT of smoke out of the exausht. i checked the oil level the next day and it was substantially down.

Correct me if im wrong but the second number in the sae rating is the ability for the oil to hold its properties under heat. Is it possible that too low a rating and its not holding up well enough once the engine has a good run (oil heats up and thins too much) and thus is making its way through seals (especially as the seals start to age). this would also explain why it doesnt happen all the time, as the engine temperature fluctuates.

Maybe as a matter of interest if people could post what oil rating they are using and wether they have experienced this problem.

15w-60 no problems
15w-40 white smoke
Cihan Aday
DieHard
Victoria
JZZ30

Posts: 586
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 09:20 am, by:  Cihan Aday (Cihan) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mate just make sure your checking the dipstick when its cold not hot.

Is it still smoking? Mine ran alright on 5-30w, 5-50w for a few changes before that, and now 10-40w.

It was puffing a bit of smoke on the rare occasion at startup hot or cold no preference, but the oil was overfilled by a significant margin.

Even on 5-30w i didnt have any problems under boost or otherwise.

15-60 is a thick oil! Using penrite stuff?

Cheers,
Cihan.
Todd Williams
Tinkerer
WA
JZA70 R (BLMQZ)

Posts: 42
Reg: 09-2005

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Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:14 am, by:  Todd Williams (Jza70_r) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to put the oil theory to rest (for one of the situations) (the random idle smoke)

For almost 18 months i was running Castrol Formula R Synthetic 10w-60 with the same problem as i have today running Mobile 1 Trisynth 10w-30.

What really me with my problem is for example the last 3 days the car has not smoked once, no smell no smoke and ive been driving the car exactly the same way each day. Even the weather has been the same (constand 30'+ days.

tomorrow it could start again for every set of lights.

hows that for a random problem?

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