Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 08:25 pm, by: Tom Burgan(Burg)
I have finally got my new turbos in the car, they are the HKS t3g twin setup Christian Molenda had up for sale awhile ago. Had them fitted by Morpowa Auto Centre in Modbury. Gave the car to em last Thursday and just got it back today. I also got them to install my Turbosmart e-boost controller at the same time. The only thing missing from the turbo setup was a connecting pipe to the exhaust from the dump pipe, that was an extra $240. They tuned the car with my SAFC on the dyno and made 211rwkw, also made the top radiator tank crack, but an extra $300 made that go away. I was hoping to get more around the 240rwkw mark but the mechanic said I would be able to reach that if I got a new piggy back comp like an e-manage or a Haltech. My first impressions of the new setup was: mmmmm, ok but I don’t notice much of a difference apart from a tad more lag. So at first I was a bit disappointed until I had a play around with the new boost controller. The mechanic told me he put the 3 preset settings on 10, 12 and 15 psi. When I jumped in the car I just assumed it was going to be on 15 but... after a play around found out it was only on 10. Straight away jacked it up to 15 and crapped my pants just a little bit. I can really feel the pull back in my seat when I put the throttle on now. All in all I am very pleased with everything, the lag is slightly more but still enough I can live with and the under the bonnet still looks factory so there is no chance of any Cop knowing I have had the work done.
I will post up some pics when I get a chance if any one is interested. In the pic below you might be able to see the solid boost line at 15psi
Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 09:39 pm, by: Daniel Clarke(Dieseltrain)
They should be able to tune the SAFC pretty well. Its not quite as solid as an ECU ( no timing changes) but it should have some solid tuning capabilities. WHat AFR's did the readout show?
I would have thought you would have made alot more power than that! Alot of guys have pushed more power with stock turbos at 15psi, let alone T3g's.
Maybe there is still more to be had from the tune! I guess those turbos can run up to 20psi with some aftermarket ecu changes? Then your power would increase, but Shane just had his steel wheeled Ct12's produce 237rwkw at 15psi, so im doubting you will find 20something kw between an SAFC and an Emanage or similar!
I would definatley be checking AFR's to see if they leaned it right out, or left it really safe and left more power in there!
Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 12:11 am, by: Dean Carsen(Deano)
lol I'll bet they'll sell you another ECU too. Get your knock counter on your SAFC displaying as graph by itself and try boosting them to 18. If its not detonating it should be fine. They have tuned it very safely.
Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 11:25 am, by: Cihan Aday(Cihan)
Dean Carsen wrote on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 12:11 am:
lol I'll bet they'll sell you another ECU too. Get your knock counter on your SAFC displaying as graph by itself and try boosting them to 18. If its not detonating it should be fine. They have tuned it very safely.
Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 11:26 am, by: Tom Burgan(Burg)
They did not give me an AFR readout. I think maybe they did tune it too safely because when I gave them the turbos I also gave them a set of 440cc injectors to put in. The mechanic said to me he doesn't think the car would need them and he would do a dyno run to see. So maybe he under tuned the car slightly so he wouldn't have to put the 440's in, but I dont know.
How can I safely up the boost the boost to 18 using the knock counter? I dont really know what I am looking at when it comes to the SAFC. If I change the boost to 18 will the SAFC need to be retuned??
Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 03:41 pm, by: Dean Carsen(Deano)
Well i guess if your not sure about those things leave it. I thought you had 440's Find out what injectors you have got. Get a printout of your AF ratio Get the SAFC manual off the Apexi site. It seems a waste running T3G's at 10 - 15, but youve got to have enough fuel etc. I've got some Steel wheels and EBoost SAFC,440's etc on a TT. Morepowa tuned it at 15psi @216kw .I bumped it up to 18 and it was fine.It made a big difference and that was OK for 50k.I then got talked into a Unichip which is OK, but the old setup worked fine.
Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 05:17 pm, by: Tom Burgan(Burg)
The injectors in the car at the moment are the standard 380cc but I have a set of 440's. I am a bit pissed off now because I told the mechanic to put the 440's in but he said its not worth it and it would cost me another 3 hours labour, now if I want them in I have to get the SAFC retuned. If I did bump the boost up to 18psi, how would I know if my standard injectors are up to it? Is it all to do with the knock counter??
Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 06:09 pm, by: Shannon Linnan(Qik_barge)
haha. Dude i wouldnt be goin back there ... What a twit...
Now, i'm no expert, and what i know has only been picked up from this forum, but at the very least you should be runnin 440's with your T3G's, and after performing this mod on my own, i can tell you, its a piece of cake. Man, get your hands dirty, you might enjoy it, i love it... Although, its always handy havin the laptop beside you, lol...
Also, although i cant comment either way on its effectiveness, as i'm yet to have it tuned, I also installed an Emanage ultimate on my own with relative ease (just dont forget to upload the software from your laptop... GRRRRRRRR!!!!!). Some of the other guys on the forum are runnin the EMU though and could probably give you the pro's and cons of this ecu.
The general rule is 200rwkw from the 380's, so i'd be puttin the 440's in quick smart, findin another tuner and forkin out some more dosh for another tune.
Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 10:52 pm, by: Ben Socratous(Socrates)
Yeah, morpowa sucks donkey dick, especially after the crap they tried to dribble down the phone to me! I know that some of you guys swear by them, but I got a bad vibe off this guy, came across as way to arrogant for my liking.
Tom, we'll have to catch up one day and dump those 440's in, then you cann take it to THR and get it tuned good. They're the ones that helped by brother in-law build his 1100hp 1J, so one would assume they know their stuff.
Friday, September 01, 2006 - 12:55 am, by: Cihan Aday(Cihan)
Stock 380's will take 15-16psi with standard turbo's, but t3g's and a front mount.. You're probably already pushing them into the 90's %flow wise.
Dont run more than 17psi without a higher res map sensor. 18psi is do-able, even 20psi is, but it'll be running rich part throttle and full throttle between 15-20psi. If you dont have a boost cut defender, 18psi is not going to work with the safc and standard injectors easily. Even with a FCD, there just isn't enough fuel. Upping the boost will cause dramas when you don't need them most.
My advice, get the 440's put in, grab a supra map sensor and get it tuned to 18psi. She'll be fine.
By the way, that dyno's reading low because its probes are uncalibrated/has unspecified parameters. You can tell by the numbers on the bottom of the chart.
Friday, September 01, 2006 - 08:33 am, by: Tom Burgan(Burg)
Ok cheers for all your input guys. I think now I have a plan: 1) Leave the car the way it is for a bit longer until I can get a bit more loot. 2) Buy a supra map sensor and an E-manage ultimate and attempt to wire it in. 3) Get Socratous around to help me install the 440's (thanks Ben, only problem is I will have to pay you in beer). 4) Find a new tuner that knows what turbos they are dealing with...
Friday, September 01, 2006 - 01:19 pm, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
I agree with Cihan.
1.Put the 440's in yourself. Took me about 2 hours and I was just working things out as I went. Pretty easy
2.Get 2j map sensor in there.
3. Drive sedately to different tuner and get it tuned for the boost you want. Reepa has proved that the 440's can make close to 300rwkw so you will have a big safety margin.
4. This way, you will have to lean it out further than you would if you had 380's which means boost cut will be raised further.
Friday, September 01, 2006 - 02:54 pm, by: Justin Camilleri(Just)
hmm.. I've just read the above about the maps sensor. Now, sorry to use this thread, would I need a supra map sensor if I was to run the steel c12a's at 18psi? with emanage install and 440's???
Friday, September 01, 2006 - 04:24 pm, by: Chris Davey(Chris_davey)
I wasn't recommending it, just saying that it has been done so with 211rwkw, he will be able to run safer duty cycles. I am running 550's at 240rwkw so far. Aiming for around 300rwkw in the end.
Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 05:23 pm, by: Tom Burgan(Burg)
Couple of pics of the engine bay with the new snails. Still got that standard look to fool the traffic Cops. Also take note of the shiny new radiator top tank.
Monday, September 04, 2006 - 11:02 am, by: Christian Molenda(Christof)
Hey tom
Good to hear those turbos are in.. I think you should put some more boost through them.. They have a 360 degree thrust bearing in them making them fine to run higher boost. also just put those injectors in there before that. also safc should be ok still. You should easily get 250rwkw out of them with safc and 17psi
Monday, September 04, 2006 - 05:28 pm, by: Tom Burgan(Burg)
Cheers Christian, I still cant work out why you would go to all the trouble of taking the t3g's out and going to a big single?!? Unless your making 300+ rwkw. And you reakon I shouldn't be boostin these over 17psi? I think I read something on a different car forum about a guy boostin his t3g's up to 21psi, not sure if he had any problems tho. Also did you or anyone else have some sort of specs sheet on these turbo's? I checked the HKS website but no luck.
Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 09:34 am, by: Christian Molenda(Christof)
The guy that tuned my car with them on told me that they are rated about 320 hp each turbo.. Also yeah do boost them. id put upto 25psi through them but wouldnt be too sure how long the engine will like it for.
Also i went the single turbo as there is more potential there for the future and i can get the power figures i had with less boost. also looks good with one single there