Monday, November 27, 2006 - 10:44 pm, by: Mark Ribbans(V8gtsoarer)
Hey Guys,
Well my soarer is very sick. The other day I noticed a small crack in the top radiator which had a few small bubbles coming out of it. It wasn't over heating so i thought i'd try ang get past Christmas before replacing it. Anyway that was a week ago..
Today my car overheated on the way to work, i saw the temp climb then it hit max and started flashing so I immediately killed the motor and pulled over. Upon popping the hood i noticed that the radiator fluid was not hot at all, and in fact was tepid. After letting the motor cool for 30 mins I managed to limp the next 2 ks to my mechanic. He did a coolant change and said that it took 12 litres of coolant!
Anyway driving home tonight it overheated again, this time though, as it got hot, the performance was crap and I could hear a tapping noise when accelerating, that sounded like engine knock! Anyway I again pulled over straight away, waited and limped home the last Km home after it cooled. Anyway my car is now sitting in the driveway smelling aweful (that burned coolant smell - glycol smell i think it's called?
So i'm assuming that the radiator is worse that I thought and is boiling off the coolant.. 12 litres on a 10km trip though?
Not sure what i should do next. Do i refill with coolant in the morning and risk driving to a mechanic or do I tow it? Is it actually possible to kill a 1UZFE or will the computer kick in and kill the motor first? I hope i haven't damaged my baby..
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 06:46 am, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
Never, NEVER drive your car if it is overheating. Don't think "oh, its just a few K's, it'll be alright" - Get off the road and get a tow truck or a mate to come and tow you. Show some mechanical empathy!
Also NEVER leave a serious problem with your car unfixed. If you can't afford to fix it, either stop driving the car until you can, or think about buying a car that you can afford to maintain properly.
No, there is nothing in the ECU to protect the car from overheating. If its off the top of the gauge, its pretty serious.
Fortunately 1UZ's are very tough and don't blow head gaskets generally - though if it is going to happen, driving it like you did would certainly be the way to make it happen.
Sorry about the rant Mark, it just pisses me off at the number of people I see around who aren't looking after their cars properly.
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 09:41 am, by: Mark Ribbans(V8gtsoarer)
Thanks for your concern, perhaps i titled this thread incorrectly. I'm not so ignorant as to not know the the damage that can be caused, it was just because a mechanic told me last night not to worry because these engines are tough and the computer will stop it killing the engine etc.. Anyway i didn't think that was the case then or now.
I've added some coolant this morning and turned the motor on for a few seconds and it ran ok. I am a little concerned how much coolant it drank though. I checked the dip stick and the oil looks fine (no chocolate milk) so i'm praying i haven't done a head ga$ket.
I'll be leaving the car as is until i can get it towed.
The crack in the radiator is about 8mm long on the inside, just where the fan shroud is. Do i need a whole new radiator or this just the top tank (forgive the 1UZFE radiator ignorance). There is one on ebay for $450 now, but i'm not sure whether this is what i need or whether 2nd hand will do or where to go next. I'm in Adelaide and looking for advise as to where to go next.. Thanks
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 10:11 am, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
There is some good epoxy stuff (Selley's blue for use with water. It's a two part putty in a tube) that works well. It is NOT a permanent cure but, for instance, my top tank cracked about 3 months ago along the front where it is easy to get to. Since I have a new engine to go in I am not putting a new top tank on until then. Probably it will get a custom radiator anyway. The epoxy has held really well. I did wire brush the whole area first and cleaned it thoroughly before applying the stuff and it stuck like it's supposed to. I haven't had to redo any yet. I do leave the radiator cap on its' first notch so there is no pressure in the system and check water levels EVERY time I drive it. It uses only a little after it has stopped because of the loose cap. Since the A/C compressor died too (there's a new one on the new motor) and it has a 72 deg thermostat it doesn't get hot even in current weather.
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 10:16 am, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
It sounds like you only need to replace the top tank but check the bubble tank too (that's where the cap is). These are notorious for leaks and when old and heat stressed like my top tank was it only takes someone to lean on it, which is almost a natural thing to do while working on the engine, to crack it.
If you are thinking mods, like me, now is the time to think about a custom (alloy?) radiator. If you need top and bubble tanks along with a core a whole new custom setup can be almost the same price.
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:41 am, by: Peter Nitschke(Pen)
Mark, have a chat to APM Radiators in Lonsdale. Ben had his TT radiator done there some time ago, cost was around $130 from memory - Ben removed and refitted the radiator himself.
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 12:53 pm, by: Mark Ribbans(V8gtsoarer)
Hey guys, well i have a bit of an update. Turns out when i picked the car yesterday they were only part way through the radiator flush. It was filled with water, not coolant which (hopefully) shouldn't have mattered too much, but still it did seem to boil it off rather quickly. I'm dreading this being a head gasket.. Mechanic said they can confirm whether it is a head gasket or not by some special fluid that changes colour when mixed with hydrocarbons or something?
Hmm, still not sure whether i should take it back to them or the radiator place. I think i'll just leave it in the garage for a few days to ponder.
Mark i'll also look at the Epoxy temporary fix you mentioned, assuming removing the fan shroud is easy it shouldn't be too difficult. I guess if it starts over heating after doing this then i'm relatively assured it is a head gasket. Anyone know of a way i can confirm this myself? <sigh>
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 01:49 pm, by: Harry Lemmens(Wombat)
easy way (generally) to test for a head gasket or a crack is by the use of a radiator tester.
These go on the radiator in place of the standard cap, and have a pump that allows you to presurise the system.
If there is a crack/leak, you can see the pressure gauge flicker (and also go up) when you run the engine.
As someone said ... the ECU does not have anything to stop the engine when high temps are detected.
Holden 202's do the following when you boil em dry ... after a couple of months, you leave the top of one of the pistons stuck in the top of the bore. Overheating damage isn't always instantaneous...
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 05:52 pm, by: Shane Ilich(Ferret)
It may be a cracked head gasket between water channel and piston - putting exhaust gases into your coolant system, Thus water wont be getting into the oil at all. Are you getting any bubbles or gases coming out of your coolant when the engine is running?
IMHO as much as you dont want to hear it, it sounds suspiciously like a BHG
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 09:00 pm, by: Mark Ribbans(V8gtsoarer)
OK kids, tonight I filled her up with green stuff and fired her up again with the radiator cap off. There is a sh*t load of coolant coming from the inside top of the radiator, so in way I'm hoping this is good sign in that the car has simply over-heated and lost fluid due to the radiator crack, and not through some internal hemorrhaging?
I had it running for maybe 2 minutes and there was no sign of little bubbles coming though the radiator.
My thinking at this stage is that I need to get the radiator fixed anyway, so i might as well get this done and hope that when i get it back the problems will be gone.
So a question. What came first the chicken or the egg? Assuming the head gasket (or similar) is gone, did the over-heating cause this or did the head gasket cause the over heating? I had this arguement with my girlfriends mum, when the head gasket blew on her gemmy while i was driving it around. She seemed to think that my spirited driving caused it to overheat and therefore for the head to go, whereas i said that the head went first and overheating was a just consequence..
Finally, assuming again that a head has gone, are they usually repaired one off, like if only one side has blown, does the other really need to be done at the same time or can just one be stripped and rebuilt?
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 07:42 am, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
Probably cheaper to get a second hand engine.
In all honesty though, its alloy block to alloy head, with a very well thought out design, and very high quality gaskets, you'll probably get away with just the radiator. Alloy head to iron block systems are more susceptable to blown gaskets when they overheat.
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 08:26 am, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
See the other thread about engine changing and stuff. If it is a head don't even bother. Get another good engine. It will be cheaper.
On the other hand I don't think you've cooked it yet from the sound of it. Do a real good check of the cooling system condition. If it looks neglected and the block is starting to corrode then junk the lot. This is what kills these engines. Neglect and lack of maintenance especially re the cooling system.
Regarding what comes first; some heavy handed lump leaning on the top tank when it's getting old and brittle or just old age re the tank. This starts the cracks. That overheats the engine and blows a head gasket. These things are tough though; it takes more than one little episode that it sounds like you caught in time anyway to blow one of these engines.
Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 01:00 pm, by: Mark Ribbans(V8gtsoarer)
Quick update - The radiator has been pulled out and taken to Burton Radiators:
Burton Radiators 376 Burton Rd Burton SA 5110 (08) 82808933
They are supplying and fitting a new top tank for $238. They even gave a quote with a price breakdown: -------------- $138 for tank $25 for O-ring $75 Labour --------------
They said the tank was 40% blocked in addition to being totally cracked along the top.
Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 11:32 pm, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
Rip the front cover of the cam and check the cam belt too just in case it's only 5 mins extra work and if you don't know for sure i.e. did it yourself, how old the belt is look at it for signs of wear and cracks. Even if it has been changed they can be easily damaged and you won't know 'til it goes bang.
There are probably more belts fail just after being changed than any other way. Manufacturing flaws and poor installation cause this. As with any new or replacement part it is statistically most likely to fail when it is first fitted and then after a 'burn in' for electrical or 'wear in' for mechanical, period they will be OK 'til they wear out. The normal mean-time-between-failure figures quoted for reliability ignore this.
Friday, December 08, 2006 - 01:59 pm, by: Tim Appleton(Timbo)
Yep, the answer we got was that there is NO interference in a non-VVTi 1UZ-FE. So everything will just spin freely with no pistons smacking valves. The VVTi engines are supposedly a different story.
Friday, December 08, 2006 - 10:20 pm, by: Mark Paddick(Sparks)
Yes ....and No. Depends if you're lucky and when it breaks and how.
Most people equate damage with bent valves. A belt bunched up busting the timing cover and destroying all kinds of sundry stuff is damage too apart from the fact that valves can hit if you're unlucky, especially if the valve is no longer being held by it's retainers and spring and falling into the chamber. A lot depends on why the belt let go.
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Sorry, I should have said Mark Ribbans. You aren't in Adelaide either.
