Soarer Central: What Gear?

Soarer Central Mechanical - V8 What Gear?

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Steve Davies
Tinkerer
NSW
V8 GT-Ltd

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Reg: 04-2008

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Monday, May 12, 2008 - 08:46 pm, by: Steve Davies (Nubby)

I gotta tell you I am a little disappointed. I had the car on the Dyno today. Before I embarrass myself I would like to know what gear do they usually have it in on the dyno? 2nd or 3rd? and which would give you the bigger reading or would they be the same?
I have a MINES ECU, Extractors, straight through high flow 2 1/4" exhaust. Pod filter with K & N. Iridium plugs. I was expecting a few more ponies then what I got!

Alex Barbieri
TryHard
VIC
UZZ31

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Reg: 08-2007

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Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:12 pm, by: Alex Barbieri (Barbieros)

From what I know 3rd gear is the go. Come on spill, what did you get?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the v8's don't usually get up over 200rwkw unless there forced induction involved.

Paul Drane
DieHard
QLD
V8 Limited

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Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:30 pm, by: Paul Drane (Paulwd)

Dont be too worried about it, mine only pulled 129rwkw before I started upgrading it.

Its up over 230 now and there is more in it.

Dyno runs are normally done in third gear for the autos.

Adam Lonergan
DieHard
Victoria
UZZ32 #369 (V8)

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Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:39 pm, by: Adam Lonergan (Alchemistal)

For reference have a look here:

http://www.planetsoarer.com/dynolibrary/dynolibrary.htm

Jan Christiansson
DieHard
NSW
Soarer V8 SC Manual

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Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:41 pm, by: Jan Christiansson (Janoc)

I will have a guess, 144rwkw?

Steve Davies
Tinkerer
NSW
V8 GT-Ltd

Posts: 11
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Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:47 pm, by: Steve Davies (Nubby)

It was done in second gear.
It produced

140.7rwkw.
Can I get a few extra kw's for having 18" rims?
One thing I was impressed with though is the torque.
Where do I go from here without spending a fortune SAFC? They did say it was running rich when he hammered it.

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

Posts: 3428
Reg: 03-2006

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Monday, May 12, 2008 - 10:09 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

It should be done in 3rd gear but most places dont know how to avoid the gearbox kicking down to 2nd gear...

The key is not to engage Wide Open Throttle until 110km/h as the gearbox wont kcikdown above this speed.....

That 140rwkw is probably closer to 155 if dynoed in 3rd gear!

Scott Casey
Tinkerer
nsw
soarer v8

Posts: 59
Reg: 02-2008

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 09:17 am, by: Scott Casey (V8soarer_1991)

sounds like its ok for power

mine's and a few other ecu's you just don't know what the tuning is like in them. everyone is tuned different.

as long as the AFR are in the norm range and not lean, should be good

mines do overly richen the top end for safe tuning

just get piggyback (safc, haltech miniceptor, emanage blue) so that later you can tune and lean the afr later on.

Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 01:38 pm, by: Andrew Ferres (Peewee)

If its done on a DynoDynamics dyno, then its only going to vary a couple of kW for different gears.

From what I'm told those dyno's are most accurate between 100 and 140kph, which is part way between 2nd and 3rd.

If its a different brand then I wouldn't know.

FYI, the torque was huge coz its in 2nd not 3rd.
Tyre/rim size will not affect rwkw by any concernable amount.

Ant Banister
Newbie
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited

Posts: 3
Reg: 05-2006

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 09:55 am, by: Ant Banister (Lexist)

I did the Toymods dyno day last year and got 150.7rwkw and they used second gear for all the cars. They called it shootout mode whatever that means.
I have a Mines ECU and 2.5 catback. It was 45 degrees that day so I should do better in winter.
Ant

Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 11:27 am, by: Andrew Ferres (Peewee)

Not necessarily. Shootout mode has temperature compensation aswell.
So regardless of ambient temp you should always pull *roughly* the same power, as long as your intake temp to ambient temp ratio is roughly the same.

Ant Banister
Newbie
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited

Posts: 5
Reg: 05-2006

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 02:06 pm, by: Ant Banister (Lexist)

My new mechanic has one of those dynos you bolt onto rather than use a rolling road. I will post the results. I will do the intake mod before I do.
Lets see what we get.

Daniel Clarke
Goo Roo
NSW
TT 2.5L 6 cylinder

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 03:03 pm, by: Daniel Clarke (Dieseltrain)

Different gear does make a difference.. We seen it back to back.. 2nd gear and third gear... Average of 15-25rwkw depending on output ( 145-220rwkw).

Dynos are supposed to be done with the 1:1 ratio in the gearbox. And also, You dont want it tuned in 2nd gear, It doesnt create no where near as much load on the engine as 3rd gear and the car will rpobably detonate and blow something up on the street.

Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 04:23 pm, by: Andrew Ferres (Peewee)

If its done in shootout mode the difference between 2nd and 3rd in an auto or 3rd and 4th in a manual will only be a few kw.

This only applies to shootout mode on a dyno dynamics dyno.

Ant Banister
Tinkerer
NSW
Soarer V8 Limited

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 05:21 pm, by: Ant Banister (Lexist)

yeah and if Toymods or any club is gonna come in and hold a dyno day, then why on earth would experienced tuners dud the whole lot of them out of 20kw? It makes no sense at all. A lower gear should actually put less load on the motor and produce a better figure not a worse one. Try climbing a hill on a bike in top gear.

Steven Anderson
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31 Manual

Posts: 266
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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 12:41 pm, by: Steven Anderson (Cusscuss)

Andrew Ferres wrote on Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 11:27 am:
Not necessarily. Shootout mode has temperature compensation aswell.
So regardless of ambient temp you should always pull *roughly* the same power, as long as your intake temp to ambient temp ratio is roughly the same.

and as long as the intake and ambient temperature probes are not somewhere ahem... hotter than they should be.

Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 01:16 pm, by: Andrew Ferres (Peewee)

Thats exactly what I was getting at with the ratio comment.

Cihan Aday
Moderator
www.etuner.com.au
JZZ30

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 06:13 pm, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Depends on what type of engine we're talking. Some older NA engines do better with a higher gear and a lower ramp rate because the oil heats up and alleviates some ponies in the top end.

Forced induction = different story. The lower the ramp, the less overall performance in general.

Shootout isn't for tuning, its for comparing power at the wheels according to a standard.

In high powered applications you really need a good dyno fan to run lower ramp rate's run after run otherwise its like doing a quarter mile run with the radiator partially blocked off in one minute intervals - not going to last long!

Steve Davies
Tinkerer
NSW
V8 GT-Ltd

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 07:45 pm, by: Steve Davies (Nubby)

What do you mean by ramp Cihan

Are you talking about the Dyno? (sorry if I am a bit niave) This dyno was in the floor of the workshop (at ground level) and it did have the words SHOOT OUT mode printed on the Graph.
Is that what you meant or have I just made a lot of you piss your pants

Andrew Ferres
DieHard
WA
'90 C-F Celsior V8, '84 Soarer V8, '91 Supra V8

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:03 am, by: Andrew Ferres (Peewee)

Ramp is the rate at which the dyno releases its electronic brake (ie, creates load on the car to simulate you taking off, driving up a hill, etc).

Without load you get no boost. The more load the quicker the boost builds. The quicker the boost builds the better the graph looks (also the quicker things heat up)

Cihan Aday
Moderator
www.etuner.com.au
JZZ30

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 04:35 pm, by: Cihan Aday (Cihan)

Steve Davies wrote on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 07:45 pm:
What do you mean by ramp Cihan Are you talking about the Dyno? (sorry if I am a bit niave) This dyno was in the floor of the workshop (at ground level) and it did have the words SHOOT OUT mode printed on the Graph.
Is that what you meant or have I just made a lot of you piss your pants

Ramp rate translates directly to change in KPH per second Steve, how fast the dyno retarder lets the cars driving wheels speed up. The lower the ramp rate, the longer the dyno run. With powerful cars you don't want it to stay at full throttle for too long with the weak dyno fan so the ramp is automatically set higher in some shootout mode's