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Brenton Hill
Newbie
Qld
UZZ#! V8 Limited

Posts: 2
Reg: 05-2011

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 09:20 am, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi guys.
Not sure if this is a common problem and someone has already put in a post on this, but my 92 UZZ31 v8 will intermittently refuse to start when warm...
I have replaced both coil packs (an auto spark mate reckons that would be the problem - wont be asking him anything again, that did nothing!).
The previous owner had the starter motor replaced, and the plugs seem ok. The plug on the left hand side coil pack appears to be a bit heat affected, and looks a bit melted but checks out ok electrically.
When it's running, it's fine, and will drive perfectly for as long as I want, but as soon as I switch it off it just wont start again until it's cold. Doesn't matter if it's a 5 minute drive or a two hour drive, once it's turned off it just wont start, and sitting for hours waiting for it to cool down is really driving me crazy...
Any tips on what might be wrong guys? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Brenton
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 696
Reg: 08-2005

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Monday, June 13, 2011 - 11:14 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

try putting a shorting link between B+ and FP in the diag port when it will not start.

this puts 12v direct to the fuel pump.

you can leave it in until you get a new Fuel pump ecu.
Brenton Hill
Newbie
Qld
UZZ#! V8 Limited

Posts: 3
Reg: 05-2011

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Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 09:28 am, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Tom. I'll be sure to give that a go. Although I took it out for a short drive to warm it up so as to try the short link in the diag port when it wont start, and after I parked it, switched it off, and tried to restart it, I got absolute bupkiss nothing! No dash lights, no interior lights, no engine cranking, absolutely nothing at all. So I shut the door and went inside for dinner...
I'll have a look at it again maybe tonight if possible. Let's hope this isnt another major fault...
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 697
Reg: 08-2005

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Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 11:49 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

check the battery terminals are clean and tight. also check the battery earth lead onto the chassis. take the bolt out and clean it all up.
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1600
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 06:05 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had that problem for years but sometimes it only takes a few minutes for a restart although on a really hot day it has taken the best part of an hour.
Recently had my engine ECU over hauled to see if that fixes things but won't know until summer.
Brenton Hill
Newbie
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 5
Reg: 05-2011

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 04:59 pm, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok.
So I've cleaned the terminals and it started up fine. I ran it for a while so the engine was warm, turned it off, tried to restart it and the usual cranking but no ignition problem. Good.
I put a link in between FP and B+, tried to start the car, no ignition, just cranking of the engine. So I guess that means the fuel pump ECU isn't the problem.
The overtemp light (the one that looks like a muffler with heat dissipating off it) has come up every time it gets warm, even before I've had the no-start issue. I've searched the forums, and I've got conflicting stories. Some say its a catalytic converter fault, others say its a general engine warning light.
Any ideas or tips would be great, because in the very short time we've had the car, it's been more unreliable than reliable (and we all need reliable transport) and I'm now even considering selling it once I've sorted out the problem....
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1601
Reg: 08-2005

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 05:42 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That hot muffler symbol is just that so you don't park/drive over dry grass and start a fire.
Joshua Baldwin
Goo Roo
victoria
1990 ucf11 c+f celsior. 1991 uzz31 toyota soarer

Posts: 1134
Reg: 10-2009

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 05:53 pm, by:  Joshua Baldwin (Celsior101) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i thought it was a warning symbol for overheating cats
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 708
Reg: 08-2005

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 06:32 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

measure the voltage at B+ when it will not start. It should be 12v.

there have been cases where the 12v is not present, but i have not seen the reason for it. i had it on my sons car for a while, but then it just stopped happening,
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria (The Nazi State)
Pretty Red Thing and The Black Beast

Posts: 2900
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 06:37 pm, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It usually means raw fuel is getting to the cats and igniting in the cats.

Try borrowing an ecu off someone and plugging that in.

Also, Run Diagnostics. Quite often the car will tell you whats wrong.
Brenton Hill
Tinkerer
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 6
Reg: 05-2011

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Friday, July 08, 2011 - 12:38 pm, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok. I've measured the voltage at B+. Got 12v. Still won't start. I've run diagnostics as per the diagnostics thread, the issue's still not resolved. Someone at work has told me to locate the cat converter wires and cut them off, apparently that solves the overheating cat converter light and any faults with that. I'm a bit unsure on doing that though.
Anyways, the wife has had enough of me tinkering with it and its unwillingness to always start (it's still intermittent) and as my new job requires me to have my own ute now, we've decided to sell it.
Brenton Hill
Tinkerer
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 7
Reg: 05-2011

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Saturday, July 09, 2011 - 08:59 pm, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right, so whilst cleaning it for the normal photoshoot for selling it, I decided to have one last crack at rectifying this issue.
I cleaned all the white electrical grade grease out of the diagnostic port, and tried the B+ and FP short, no luck.
Got the old multimeter out, found NO 12v at B+ as Tom mentioned (the diagnostic port was heavily greased when I last attempted it, I can only conclude this may have affected the readings somehow).
Ran a short wire from the battery + terminal to B+, turned the key, car starts! Woo hoo! So to confirm it, I turned the car off, removed the + feed to B+, turned the key, no start. Did this several times to make sure this was the problem (and that I wasnt going insane) and each time it would start when the 12v was shorted straight to the B+ terminal.
Now my problem is, why is this happening??? I gather the main ECU is getting no power? And more importantly how do I fix it, as I'm not a major fan of selling defective vehicles...
Peter Williams
TryHard
Victoria
V8

Posts: 119
Reg: 01-2009

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Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 10:23 am, by:  Peter Williams (Skeeta) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fuel pump ECU, behind trim under rear passenger side window I believe. It's probably cacked itself. It won't hurt to use the short in the diagnostic port until you get another fuel pump ECU to try out, there has been a few for sale on here recently. I have a spare if you can't get hold of one, but I want it back in case mine goes U/S.
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 731
Reg: 08-2005

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Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 10:37 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it is not the fuel pump ecu.

You lose B+ because REL (from memory)is missing, and the relay to supply B+ does not energise. what causes that , i do not know. Maybe some one with cct diags can track it back? Sorry i only know the problem, and not the cause.
Brenton Hill
Tinkerer
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 8
Reg: 05-2011

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Monday, July 11, 2011 - 09:46 am, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt it's the fuel ECU, as I didn't have to short out B+ to FP once I supplied 12v + to the B+ point in the diagnostic port, which leads me to think the fuel ECU is ok.
Thanks Tom, I'll have a search on the internet on how to fix this, I still dont want to sell it knowing it has an intermittent fault...
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 733
Reg: 08-2005

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Monday, July 11, 2011 - 11:07 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the relay is in the main relay/fuse box behind the battery.

From memory there are 3 "round" relays. the one closest to the engine must energise to supply B+.

When i had this problem on my sons car , i swapped the relays, but that didnt fix the problem. I found that with the ignition on and by "wriggling" the "B+" relay, (round nearest the engine) you would suddenly hear relays clicking in as B+ "appeared. I do not know if it was a bad connection in the relay base as the fault disappeared after my son used this method to get the car started a number of times.
Brenton Hill
Tinkerer
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 9
Reg: 05-2011

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Monday, July 11, 2011 - 01:40 pm, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome, thanks again for the tip Tom, I'll certainly be trying that one out!
Brenton Hill
Tinkerer
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 10
Reg: 05-2011

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 07:36 am, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Got home and tried the wriggling the round relay trick, I found that tapping it with a screwdriver worked better, I got the engine to start without jumping the 12v to B+ terminal, but the problem seemed to appear again almost straight away. I'm going to look at replacing the relay, I'm hoping this may fix it, although swapping the relays didn't work. I'm hoping its either the relay or a loose connection somewhere in the fuse box...
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 735
Reg: 08-2005

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 11:00 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hhhi brenton

i think there is more chance of a bad connection at the relay base, or dirty connection , than a faulty relay.
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 745
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 03:01 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi brenton, have you fixed the problem?
Brenton Hill
Tinkerer
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 11
Reg: 05-2011

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Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 11:40 am, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not yet Tom, no luck. I've scuffed the terminals for better contact with the relay. No dice. I then pulled the fuse box apart and checked the wiring underneath. No dice. Looks like I'll be selling it anyways, the missus is definitely over me trying to fix it rather than driving it... Just wish this issue would nick off, I'm not a fan of selling anything that's not in good working order...
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 746
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 02:39 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi,

do you know where "M-REL" comes from?

this is the signal used to energise the EFI relay and supply B+
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 747
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 03:09 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi,

looking at the limited diags i have access to, the EFI relay earth wire is a WHT/BLK wire.

one cct shows this wire going to "heater relay" and another shows it as going to chassis at the front left guard.

I think the fault may be on this earth line, that is why you can get everything working by "tapping" around the relay mounts.
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 750
Reg: 08-2005

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Friday, July 22, 2011 - 12:12 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi brenton, when the car will not start do these checks with ignition on.
1) verify no B+.
2) leave ignition on and remove the EFI relay.
3)check for +12v at pin 2 (this comes from the efi 30A fuse.) This becomes B+ when the relay energises.
4)check for +12v (M-REL) at pin 1.(this is the +12v to energise the relay and provide B+)
5) Measure pin 3 to the chassis. Should be 0 ohms. (it is the earth side of the coil)
Brenton Hill
Tinkerer
Qld
UZZ31 V8 GT Limited

Posts: 12
Reg: 05-2011

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Monday, July 25, 2011 - 12:53 pm, by:  Brenton Hill (Brenton_hill) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Tom. I'll try and give those a go this weekend if time permits.
Any idea where I can get a wiring diagram from just in case?
Cheers.
Brenton
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 752
Reg: 08-2005

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Monday, July 25, 2011 - 01:26 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://soarercentral.com/sc-forum/messages/282/347247.html?1311242219
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 753
Reg: 08-2005

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Monday, July 25, 2011 - 04:18 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

looking at what we have both found, ie tapping/moving relays in the fuse box it points to a fault in that area.

IMO a likely place is the EFI 30 amp fuse or connectors.(dirty/loose) or at the base where there are 2 wires coming from the output side of the fuse.(bad crimp/joint)
Tom Richards
DieHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 774
Reg: 08-2005

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Monday, August 08, 2011 - 07:32 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi brenton,

have you fixed the problem?
Harvey Riddle
Tinkerer
Queensland
V8 GT

Posts: 8
Reg: 05-2012

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Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 02:49 am, by:  Harvey Riddle (Hifimoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks guys, I have been plagued with this problem ever since I bought my V8 in March. When I found this thread my car was in the garage refusing to start again. I checked B+, no voltage, pulled the EFI Relay, and as soon as I plugged it back in, B+ had power, and the Engine started. Then B+ lost power, so I took the Relay out a few times until B+ had consistent power. I sprayed ContactCleaner into the socket before refitting it the last time. Despite looking pristine, I can only conclude that one or more Relay Terminals had a bad connection as it does not appear to be failing internal Relay Contacts.

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