| Author |
Message |
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31
Posts: 12556
Reg: 11-2004
|
Any chance the battery is loose and rocks a bit when you try to accelerate? |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 670
Reg: 02-2010
|
No Peter, the battery is rock solid.
I have pulled all that stuff off to get to the rotors and they line up perfectly Tom. Must be 10 times I've had that stuff off
Yes, Dan, I just go the 32 put on LPG this last week. It runs well but less economy than the 31, which was set up to feed 400 hp. The 32 has a AEB computer with King program and Valtek injectors and Zavoli 300 hp reducer, while the 31 has Hana injectors, Stag computer and Genius max reducer, which is supposed to be good for 400 hp.
Where to next. What about crank angle sensor?? |
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI
Posts: 2360
Reg: 03-2007
|
what Peters said made me wonder if the crank angle sensor wire is touching earth when engine moves under power . |
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8
Posts: 1716
Reg: 08-2005
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hi john, i am out of ideas. |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 671
Reg: 02-2010
|
Dan,I noticed on rereading the posts that you asked what ECU I am running. There is a big Numuber 29 on the ECU. This ECU was in the car when I bought it over 3 years ago. I had it re capped by a guy who used to do Soarer ECUs all the time on the Gold coast. His name was Christian .........
I tried my 32 ECU in the car and it still had this out of breath miss when I put my foot down.
Oh, by the way guys: The code that I found EFI NG then EFI 24 has not come back since I wiped it when I could not verify that it was true.
This makes me think that it was an old code from when I left the Air flow meter plug off once. I didn't wipe the code off that would have come up.
Any clues Dave, on how to test the crank angle sensor's operation. Is it in the soarer Bible?
Cheers John |
Daniel Marshall
TryHard
QLD
V8 UZZ31 X6 jzz30x1
Posts: 496
Reg: 07-2011
|
How is the safety cut off wired in?
Taxis have the safety bypassed as they play up sometimes.
My old transit van did this on petrol or gas and the safety switch was playing up.
I'm not sure why it does it on petrol but it did maybe ask your gas guy? |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 672
Reg: 02-2010
|
There are no fault codes in the system to give any hint of a faulty crank angle sensor.
When I look at the crank angle sensor wiring it looks to be fine, not near any belt.
Any advise on how to test it further?
Dan, I will talk to the LpG installer this morning when he opens up to ask about the "safety cut".
What is it and how does it work?
This morning when I woke up I wondered if there might be something in the wiring of the LPG that could effect the Petrol side as well but do not know what that could be or where to start looking. Again, I will talk to the installer by phone this morning.
Its like something happens to tell the computer to stop giving fuel of any kind when you get heavy on the throttle. |
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI
Posts: 2361
Reg: 03-2007
|
You would have checked the cam angle sensor wires and connectors i suppose too, cant see how a crank angle sensor could fail only on hard acceleration . what about TRC control can you disconnect it just to eliminate it.
John if you slowly accelerate can you get to high rev ok ? if it was something the gas guy had done it would have been there from the first day it went on gas ? |
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8
Posts: 1717
Reg: 08-2005
|
another thought from left field. Did this happen after you replaced the wiring from the oxy sensors.
The original wire is shielded to prevent "spurious" noise getting on the signal. You have replaced it with an unshielded wire. This thought is way out in left field. |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 673
Reg: 02-2010
|
I rang the LPG guy, who is very accommodating with his time to explain things and he said this system does not have a safety cut off, but it is designed to cut off the fuel automatically if anything goes wrong. He said this car has no such thing that will affect both the LPG and the petrol. The LPG just follows the Petrol.
After talking for a long time about all that I have tried he said that probably a dyno is the only way to find the problem, as it happens only under load. We need to see what is actually happening on the screen when it occurs.
It appears that the problem is an electrical issue in that it is not getting the message to put fuel in when I floor the accelerator.
I checked the cam angle sensor's resistance this morning on a cold motor and both were reading 1140 ohms, right on spec. The LPG guy said, like you Dave, that the crank angle sensor would show up with hard starting and idling, not just hard acceleration.
This car doesn't have TRC, so that is not the issue.
The fact that it is worse on petrol than on LPG is because when I tune up the LPG with more gas it hides the problem, with the message to put more fuel in through its signals from the different sensors.
The same was true when I put the hydrogen system on it: things improved significantly on LPG. I have more fuel for less throttle with hydrogen, so it nearly hid the problem on LPG, but not on petrol as hydrogen/water injection is more effective on LPG than on petrol.
Yes Dave, I can get high revs if I don't floor it as far as I know but actually I have not done that actual test to be sure, so should do that today to confirm what I think is happening. I know I can easily do 135 klms but can't remember if I got that in 2nd gear or not or if it was in 3rd? If it was 2nd gear it would obviously mean that it is high revs. |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 674
Reg: 02-2010
|
No Tom, I swappedout/replaced the O2 sensors, trying to fix the problem. |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 675
Reg: 02-2010
|
Here is a question guys, trying to think outside the square. Not sure if this is possible or not?
I suppose that because the miss/dieing happens on both petrol and LPG that it can not be fuel related. The LPG guy thinks like this too, but if the LPG follows the petrol map and the Petrol ECU is playing up, is it possible for the message from that petrol ecu to not make it to the main ecu to put LPG in? |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 676
Reg: 02-2010
|
I missed a word: "if" the petrol ecu is playing up, I meant. I don't know if it is or not? |
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8
Posts: 1718
Reg: 08-2005
|
had another quick look at what you have done, but have not seen Knock sensor mentioned?? |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 677
Reg: 02-2010
|
Tom, I checked the vacuum everywhere. I put my vacuum gauge on it and it gives me a consistent 18 when it is warm. I then pulled off vacuum lines and where every I did it dropped way down and wanted to stall. No vac leaks.
I just took it to 6000 in second gear (about 125 klms) in petrol mode and as long as I didn't press the pedal too hard it was fine, so not rev related.
That is right Tom, that is about all that is left, knock sensors. They have of coarse been in the back of my mind, so what do you think? Could that do it? I suppose so, if they were shot then they could tell the ecu to retard the timing. Is that right? |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 678
Reg: 02-2010
|
Just read up on the knock sensors and looks like you have to take them out to test them? One probe on the part that contacts the engine and one on the top and NO continuity allowed, or replace them.
Surely if it was them that were the problem they would send a fault code?
Big job to do them, hey. |
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8
Posts: 1721
Reg: 08-2005
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they are difficult to get at. Not sure if you can remove the plug from underneath the car. you can measure from the connector to the chassis and it should be no resistance(IE: open cct)without removing them. If they are really stuffed they send a code 52 and 55 I think.
they send "pulses" to the ecu and retard the timing if there is any engine knocks/vibrations.
maybe you can disconnect the 2 sensors and see how the car drives. You may get an error code, but shouldnt the car drive ok as the sensor is there to retard timing when it knocks. I am only guessing here, do not take these thoughts as fact. |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 679
Reg: 02-2010
|
The are about $140 each but I found a vortex brand from the U.S. for about $50 each delivered. Wonder if anyone has experience with these?
Big job though and would like to know if that is it before launching into it.
Why no codes if it is a knock sensor? |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 680
Reg: 02-2010
|
If you cut the wires from down under the plenum from the top you could know if you idea is valid but them you would have to take the plenum off to rejoin the wires if that is possible. You should actually take the inlet manifold off to do them and would still have to do that if they proved to be the issue.
But if you knew they were the problem is would be ok.
Need some confirmation on this from others. Anyone done what Tom is suggesting? |
Matthew Salkeld
Tinkerer
South Australia
1JZ powered 180sx
Posts: 86
Reg: 07-2008
|
Yes, disconnecting the knock sensors will give you some additional information. If the problem goes away, the knock sensor could be the fault.
I know you've checked the coils already but the problems you're describing; I've come across it twice before. Once when I was using a very poor tune on a very poor ECU and secondly, when my coilpacks were stuffed. It's just so strange... what you're describing falls exactly under the category of stuffed coilpack but... you've swapped them out... maybe both are bad? I don't know... I've got like 18 1jz coilpacks here at my place and I can't make a good set of 6 out of them. IIRC 1uz has 2 coils connected to 2 distributors or something like that?
This must all be really frustrating for you! I guess you'll have to bite the bullet and get some time on a dyno with a mechanic on hand who is really familiar with the 1uz. |
Daniel Marshall
TryHard
QLD
V8 UZZ31 X6 jzz30x1
Posts: 497
Reg: 07-2011
|
Done the fuel pump ecu jump? Could be interesting |
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8
Posts: 1722
Reg: 08-2005
|
john, are you using 98 octane? You say the problem is worse on petrol. Maybe you are getting a very slight ping and the sensor is retarding the timing out of tolerance?? Increased octane rating would reduce the pinging? Is the car running lean? Again I do not know , just thinking around your problem and throwing up some thoughts for you. With the plenum off i think there is some access to them down between the inlets. |
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Posts: 681
Reg: 02-2010
|
Hi Matthew, I have swapped the coilpacks twice, one quite new set beck Arnley and the other set was off my 32, which is performing very well.
Dan, I was thinking that I should the fuel pump jump, just to eliminate it for sure.
I will exhaust other things before detaching the knock sensors. |
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8
Posts: 1723
Reg: 08-2005
|
fuel pump is fuel only not lpg |
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI
Posts: 2362
Reg: 03-2007
|
Have you ever had a big back fire when you were sorting your gas out?
Thought i would put this up might help people think?
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