Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 11:17 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
I have a problem with first start up for the day on my 31. It takes about 3 goes to start it up when it has been sitting all night and then it only starts on some cylinders but rights itself after a few short seconds. It is then right for the rest of the day and starts instantly most time.
I have been wanting to test the fuel pressure and the systems ability to hold pressure but do not know how to test the fuel pressure on these cars. A lot of modern cars have a Schrader valve on the fuel line or rail but there doesn't seem to be any provision for a gauge attachment on the Soarer V8.
If I were to undo the fuel filter outlet near the rear wheel I would get fuel everywhere in the process, but if that is the only way into the fuel line I am confronted with what sort of fitting I will use to tap in to it. It would seem that I need a "T" that would screw into the filter and that the fuel line to the engine from there would screw into. Hey, that will not be easy to find. Any one done this? How did you do it?
Maybe the problem could be the non return valve on the fuel pump but that is not as likely as one of the injectors leaking into the cylinders and leaving raw petrol there to flood the cylinder when I try to start it up, so that the engine has to pump that fuel out before that/those cylinders can fire. This is what it feels like is happening?
Maybe it is the fuel regulator that has a diaphragm fault. I doubt that though as there is no smell of fuel or any leak when I pull the vacuum line off the diaphragm. To check the diaphragm out properly I need to have a pressure gauge hooked up too.
Help from one who has done this is needed. And if the only place to go in is the fuel filter where did you get the "T" piece to fit your gauge? Maybe there is a special banjo bolt that an allow a special fuel gauge line to be fitted into the fuel rail. Where to get one of these?
Monday, May 19, 2014 - 12:26 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
I can see that the philips head screw is raised a bit. When does it come up, at what pressure? If the pressure is compromised sitting overnight, do you mean that it will be down instead of up?
Still looking for someone to help out with how to fit a pressure gauge to the fuel line though.
Monday, May 19, 2014 - 01:27 pm, by: Matthew Salkeld(Munkymatt)
my napkin calculations show that it'd way way way less than a second to pressurise a 6mm ID fuel line of 10m length... This isn't realistic at all but it doesn't seem likely that the fuel is flowing out of the lines or anything... Also, I've disassembled cars sitting for quite some time and the fuel rails have always been totally full of fuel (as well as the lines, feed and return). Which if you think about it, makes perfect sense... if both ends of the fuel system are submerged in fuel in the tank there is no realistic way for it to flow back into the tank.
Monday, May 19, 2014 - 01:28 pm, by: Tom Richards(Tomr)
john, check where it is when the car is running fine. then check again the next morning prior to starting the car. my understanding is it still should be in the same position
John Stafford DieHard Qld. Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Monday, May 19, 2014 - 02:12 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Sounds like I have leak then as it is taking more than a couple of seconds to get up to pressure by the sound of it, after I turn the key. Once it gets to pressure it still has the starting problem. The guy who cleaned the injectors said that they did a leak down test on them when they cleaned them but that it is still possible for one or more to leak when on the car.
If no one has done this exercise before then I might have to take off the fuel rail and have a schrader valve silver soldered in, maybe to one of tubes that link the two sides of the fuel rail, either front or back, so I can easily measure my pressure with pressure gauge, without having to have special fittings, and so I can lay the gauge on the windscreen and see where the problem is.
Monday, May 19, 2014 - 03:38 pm, by: Matthew Salkeld(Munkymatt)
Lol don't use a shraeder valve, totally inappropriate. Just a pressure gauge running off a t-piece inline with some part of the fuel system pressure side.
Monday, May 19, 2014 - 09:14 pm, by: Jason Hall(Halljps)
The screw should be up when the pump is running and down when the engine stops. (It's a backflow valve) The pressure regulator is on the other fuel rail. There is a line connecting the two fuel rails, it maybe hard, mine is a hose, you can add a tee in there to get a gauge in. Gauges are usually 1/8bsp, fittings are available at master and repco etc Needs to be on the pressure side (before the regulator) Might be worth putting your head in the tank to see of the hose connecting the pump to the hardline is leaking, remove the cover and start the car, if it leaks you will hear and see it... (No smoking and windows down) Hope it helps...
John Stafford DieHard Qld. Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Monday, May 19, 2014 - 11:00 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Ok Jason, thanks for the tips. That line between the fuel rails on mine is solid, and that is where I thought to put a schrader valve maybe but Matthew has said it was not the way to go, not sure why as other cars have them? Maybe I could cut that rear connection pipe and flair it and put some rubber fuel line in there and then put a "T" connection in and connect a pressure testing gauge to that line. What do you think?
I will try what you say re a leak in the tank. Will I see air bubbles or just a jet of fuel coming out somewhere?
Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 07:11 am, by: Tom Richards(Tomr)
john, compare where the screw is on both cars before the 1st start of the day. then have someone else start each car whilst you look at the screw. See if there is any difference to how it operates. is the 31 slower to react?
Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 10:19 am, by: Matthew Salkeld(Munkymatt)
any decent workshop will be able to test the pressure it's totally trivial... all you do is hook up a gauge inline with the pressure side... anywhere on the pressure side will do; literally anywhere between the pump and the FPR. Realistically, since all you're testing is that there IS fuel, you could just loosen a fitting while it's off and check that there's actually fuel there. If there's a leak there will be zero fuel.
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 - 07:15 pm, by: Jason Hall(Halljps)
In the tank there is a hose about 40mm long, it can let go, although rare, and you would get a small fountain in there ;) You wont see it unless you tank is fairly empty...
If replacing, make sure to use submersible efi hose, not standard fuel line.
John Stafford DieHard Qld. Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 03:28 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Jason, My fuel is lower than the hose connecting the pump (about 23ltrs in the tank). When I run the engine there is turbulence, like a jet of fuel happening in the tank, looks like from the base of the pump, and some bubbles too but it won't be from that piece of 40ml long hose that connects the pump. Is this normal or is there a leak at the bottom of the pump?
As for the banjo fittings: does anyone make long ones, long enough to take both the tail and the existing fuel line, that would be perfect?
I looked in the Soarer Bible and they have a special fuel pressure SST that has a compatible tail on it to go on the left hand side banjo but that sort of thing would be very expensive. 2 Banjos with tails, without the hose is over $60. For a once off I am looking for something cheaper than that. That is only to test it before I have to maybe replace the pump, which is nearly the same price.
Tom, that pressure valve on the passenger side fuel rail comes up and goes down a little when it doesn't start, maybe a sign of my loosing pressure somewhere. The 32 just starts first up and so I can't get a good comparison except that the 32 stays up as soon as it goes up with the pressure. maybe I have my answer here but if I could get a pressure gauge on the system I would be able to adequately test the pump and the fuel regulator.
Wednesday, May 28, 2014 - 08:02 pm, by: Jason Hall(Halljps)
That will be the fuel return and should be fine.
Is there a rubber joiner on the hard return line in the engine bay?
There are two hard lines coming up on the passenger side, one goes to the fuel rail on the same side and the other returns from the fuel pressure regulator on the drivers side.
It is a hard line at the regulator end around the back of the engine, and I would expect a flexible joiner hose before connecting back to the main return line...
Sorry it is vague, mine is not standard so I am not sure what yours looks like.
I know this is a lefty but pretty sure they are the same in this respect...
John Stafford DieHard Qld. Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 03:08 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
After thinking that the remaining slight issue with full pedal acceleration was just some minor tuning of the LPG, I found that the tune on the Lpg was fine, but the dying of the engine problem on full throttle, although it could not be compared with the previous situation, was there on both petrol and LPG. I do not know the complete connection between the LPG and the normal ECU but I thought that I needed to ensure that the problem was not the petrol and hence the decision to buy a new fuel pump.
I will just have to wait and see if this is an answer or not. Next week will tell.
When I did my sums on the cost of getting someone to test my fuel pressure it was $90 The cost for me to buy a pressure tester and any fittings would be close to the same as getting someone else, with the right fittings to do it. And then if I found out that my fuel pump wasn't up to it I would still have to buy one so:
I could buy a Genuine Walbro GSS342 255LPH In Tank High Pressure Fuel Pump + Installation Kit - (Item:281042853650 ) [SOLEY: 1920926]-pump for $108
So, I bought it. It should be here by Friday or early next week.
There was some one on SC that said that he uses a GS342 and had no worries. If any one has had any troubles fitting one of these high pressure pumps to a V8 with regards to leaks or the pressure being too high for the regulator could you please advise.
thanks guys.
John Stafford DieHard Qld. Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514
Monday, June 02, 2014 - 12:13 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
I have put the Walbro 342 in it made no difference to the starting or the dying under full throttle but when I shorted out the diagnostics FP and +B the thing started without the missing, so looks like the fuel ECU, but you should have heard the fuel rushing through the return line when I had the points shorted out, lots of pressure there, hope not too much.
So, I took the fuel pump ecu off the 32 and ran the 31 with it. I don't want to be a boy who calls wolf, saying that it is fixed all the time and then find out that the problem is still there the next day, but when I took it for a run there was no dying like before and it went totally well.
Ok, next was to put the 31 fuel ecu in the 32 and expect it to hard start from cold and to miss on full throttle. Shock, neither of the these problems occurred!!
I do not know if it was a connection on the ecu's or if it was just a temporary good run but will look at it over the next few days and see it the problem comes back in either cars?
Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 05:46 pm, by: John Stafford(Johng12)
Good day Kev, It was the connection, not the fuel ecu itself. I just cleaned the connection with some electrical cleaner by pushing it on and off about 6 times. No problems since
I had a hard starting issue too and found that it was just my battery did not have enough startup ccas. I bought a new red top with 800cca high performance start, like I had on my 32, and it starts first pop. My 32 is gone now and so I am just a happy 31 owner plus a Ford Territory that I am getting ready for rego to take the grandkids and family along.
Previous
