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John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514

Posts: 845
Reg: 02-2010

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Monday, July 21, 2014 - 01:56 pm, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
First up in the mornings I have always had to kick the engine over once as a dummy start before hitting it a second time, when it started without fail, but then it started to need 2 dummy starts, just kicking over, before actually expecting it to start. Now it takes 3 kicks before it will start and then it doesn't fire on all cylinders first up. It rights itself quickly and then it is fine for the rest of the day. The hotter it is the easier it is for it to start straight off.

I have mentioned this problem before but never solved it but did solve other long standing problems with misses.

I have replaced most things and checked most things but this problem persists on a cold engine.

First thing in the morning, the car is parked in my garage, not outside. The temp doesn't seem to make any difference from 11 degrees to 20 degrees.
I have a new Walbro 255 ltr /hr fuel pump and have had the injectors professionally cleaned and leak tested, all ok. But I refitted the injectors with the O rings that the guy who cleaned them supplied. They were too big and I had to go back and get him to exchange them for smaller ones, which he did but I felt that these were too loose, but fitted them anyway as he said that there were no other sizes. Could this be the problem, that is leak by of fuel into the cylinders so that when I try to start up, the raw fuel that is laying there will not fire, having to be pushed out the exhaust valves before the newly injected vapourised fuel could burn, Hense the uneven firing at start up?

What do you think?

I have been through the whole thing of testing fuel pressure, which is nearly impossible without buying special fittings to put a gauge on at the fuel rail so that I can see if it looses pressure through leak down.
The regulator doesn't spit out any fuel and the revs do not change when I take the vacuum line off and block it up to test the reg, so don't imagine there is a problem there.

Looking for ideas guys.

Maybe I will just have to take off the rear pipe that feeds the driver's side fuel rail and put a "T" into it so that I can put a pressure pressure test gauge on. Is this the easiest and most inexpensive way do you think?
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12666
Reg: 11-2004

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Monday, July 21, 2014 - 05:32 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Idle air control valve sticking?
Peter Williams
TryHard
Victoria
V8

Posts: 202
Reg: 01-2009

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Monday, July 21, 2014 - 05:50 pm, by:  Peter Williams (Skeeta) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you changed the fuel pump ECU?
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514

Posts: 847
Reg: 02-2010

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Monday, July 21, 2014 - 07:21 pm, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Peter, I had it out and there seemed no movement in the bearings and it is spotless from the time that I cleaned it. Could it be faulty apart from dirt and bearing?
Should I take this out of my 32 and try it in my 31?
Do most of the V8s start first up or is it normal to need a second go at it? Maybe it has been on the way out for a while?
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514

Posts: 848
Reg: 02-2010

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Monday, July 21, 2014 - 07:24 pm, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Peter,
I took the fuel pump ecu out of the 32 and put it in the 31 and the miss in the 31 disappeared and no miss occurred in the 32, so I assumed that the problem was the connection (the ECU plug). What do you think?
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514

Posts: 850
Reg: 02-2010

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 - 02:14 pm, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What have I just done?

I cleaned the contacts on the fuel ECU just in case they were dirty, I used electrical contact cleaner. Remember that the long standing miss was traced to a bad contact here, maybe combined with other things. No miss now.

I swapped the IAT from my 32 and both cars remained the same.

I swapped the MAF unit and both cars remained the same.

Could the problem be the starter motor is getting old and not spinning the motor fast enough, and so it just catches a couple of cylinders at a time until it picks up speed and then it is right?
Since I put a new starter motor in the 32 is really spins it over.

Ideas please :-)
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12667
Reg: 11-2004

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 - 05:47 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am pretty sure that any cylinder firing correctly would provide enough impetus for the others to fire also.

My v8's pretty much fire first time every time, though I am having an issue with one which I haven't started to investigate yet - waiting for nicer weather.
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514

Posts: 851
Reg: 02-2010

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Wednesday, July 23, 2014 - 05:59 pm, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peter, I have just had the injectors cleaned and that did not solve the problem. In the process they leak tested the injectors but as I have said: the o rings were too tight and then seemed too loose but that is what I have in it. Could I be getting leak down and the neat fuel sitting in the cylinder, being liquid, will not fire and kind of acts like flooding the thing until it is pushed out of the outlet valves, so that the fresh mist can ignite.

do you follow my logic? And what do you think? If it were you what would you do?

Cheers
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12669
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 - 12:26 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you get too much fuel in the cylinder it can cause hydrolock since fuel being liquid can't be compressed. In which case the engine can't turn over at all until you remove spark plugs and wind the engine over to eject all the excess fuel.

I don't think that is happening to you, and chance of having enough fuel to pool but not to hydrolock is pretty slim.

That probably doesn't help, but in my mind would eliminate too much fuel.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12670
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 - 12:27 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any chance the battery is a bit stuffed?
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514

Posts: 852
Reg: 02-2010

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 - 10:04 am, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just tested it and it was lower than what it should be (at least 12.4 volts). It was 12.12 volts so I have it on the charger and will see how it starts when it is up to strength.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12673
Reg: 11-2004

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Monday, August 04, 2014 - 09:51 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it fully charged yet?
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and a UZZ32 # 514

Posts: 858
Reg: 02-2010

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Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - 10:07 am, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Peter, you were on the money. I did a reclaim charge on the battery, I broke my hydrometer, so could not measure each cell but it seemed to come up ok for 3 days and then collapsed completely.
I just put another battery in and it started up first hit, great.
It must have been failing for a while and because it had not fully dropped out, the weak cell had not fully collapsed, it had enough to work but not enough power to kick over fast enough to fire up properly until the alternator kicked in properly.

All sweat now :-).
Thanks for your contribution.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 12676
Reg: 11-2004

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 - 01:06 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Been off air, but thanks for reporting back. Glad you got a good result!

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