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  Soarer Central * Mechanical - V8 * Engine misfire at 4000 rpm * Archive through August 22, 2014 Previous Previous    Next Next  

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James Meikle
Tinkerer
NSW
SOARER GTL V8

Posts: 12
Reg: 12-2009

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Friday, August 31, 2012 - 09:11 pm, by:  James Meikle (Msc400) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi just got timing belt , distributer caps , rotor buttons and spark plugs changed. Pick up my car and engine electrical warning light comes on plus when I get to 4000rpm under load starts to missfire and blow black smoke. Any ideas. The mechanic thinks it's spark leads or coils. But had no problems before.
Jamie Richards
TryHard
St.john's
v8

Posts: 201
Reg: 06-2009

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Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 05:07 am, by:  Jamie Richards (Nwb40gt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sounds like air flow meter
James Meikle
Tinkerer
NSW
SOARER GTL V8

Posts: 13
Reg: 12-2009

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Monday, September 03, 2012 - 10:42 am, by:  James Meikle (Msc400) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi jamie thank you for your help.
I went and spoke to the mechanic today to find out whats wrong all he said was I haven't had time but the problem has nothing to do with what work they have done. So I had a look with in 10 minutes I found the timing belt was out by 1 tooth on the drivers side.
Mike Beck
Goo Roo
New Zealand
BMW E36 Coupe 1UZFE V8 340i

Posts: 5596
Reg: 11-2005

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Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - 12:38 pm, by:  Mike Beck (Gold_40gt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, that guy calls himself a mechanic and he sets a timing belt one tooth out?

Hopeless!!
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 6775
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, September 06, 2012 - 07:53 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it's not exactly rocket science is it!
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 966
Reg: 12-2010

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Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 09:19 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not typically a grave digger of threads but this thread pretty much is a dead ringer for my situation.

Just went in for a major service. Car now has a miss they told me. I went down to see it and I told them to check the timing and the leads. They called me just as they were closing and said everything looks OK and they don't have anymore time to work on it. It stutters a bit revving it but it idles fine. They said they think its leads but leads are only 1 year old and plugs are only 1 week old. Never had this kind of a miss before.

I am told it has a misfire from about 3000rpm until 3500rpm then revs fine to redline. Just completed a major service but as I said went in never running better since I changed the plugs only a week prior to this major service. I get the car tomorrow.

What would they have touched to have caused this issue? He said he never touched the leads. It also has new rotor caps.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1911
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 08:52 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what was your major service? you need a list of what work was carried out to establish the areas they worked in.

Major service i would think is leads, plugs, timing belt etc.
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 967
Reg: 12-2010

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 12:06 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Timing belt, radiator. New bearings and seals, water pump power steering pump. I did the leads 12 months ago and the plugs last week. I also did the dizzy caps recently. Went in without any sort of misfire.
John Stafford
DieHard
Qld.
Soarer UZZ31 GT-L V8 and Ford Territory Ghia AWD

Posts: 865
Reg: 02-2010

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 12:21 pm, by:  John Stafford (Johng12) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Scott, Could it be a repeat of my issue where the connection to the fuel ECU was the problem, so that it was not giving me a consistent 12 volts for the fuel pump, only getting the 8 volt feed, so it missed (badly) under heavy acceleration.

Maybe it is the fuel ecu itself? Mine is fixed now after using electrical connector cleaner and pushing the connection on and off half a dozen times.
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 968
Reg: 12-2010

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 12:22 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They are saying leads. Apparently the ones I put on are only 6mm ones so they don't last as long but its only been 1 year and its funny that the miss only happened after they changed the timing belt. I asked could it be off by a tooth and he said it would barely run if that was the case. It idles OK but any sort of load or revs shows the problem. I think they said it revs out past 4,000rpm OK. They also said when its cold its much worse and when its warm its more load related. I really needed it back today but kind of don't want to take it back in its current condition. I needed to do some towing but probably wouldn't be up for it anyway. So I have left it with them for the mean time.
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 969
Reg: 12-2010

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 12:25 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would they have gone anywhere near the fuel ecu though? I know it's a common problem but I've never looked into it because I've never really had many issues with my soarer.
James Buchan
Goo Roo
Vic
vvt-i turbo

Posts: 1823
Reg: 10-2008

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Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - 12:25 pm, by:  James Buchan (Jrbuch) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd double check your leads mate. Make sure they've not pinched one of them or not correctly plugged one back in.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1913
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 08:28 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

agree with james. check order of leads. you can also measure them with a multi meter. compare leads of similar length for resistance.

Do not know effect of 1 tooth out on this motor.

To check, put harmonic balancer on TDC, take off disti covers. rotors should be lined up on a mark on the housing. If 180" out, pull motor around until TDC at harmonic balancer lines up again.
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 970
Reg: 12-2010

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 08:40 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am told one lead is measuring 2 ohms and another 3 ohms. Would this cause the issue. Strange as they are only a year old. Anyone else had issues with top gun leads?
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1915
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 09:24 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

that is low , most leads measure in k ohms.
what do the rest measure?
2-3 ohms is like the old wire leads.
maybe check if they were short leads and measured 2 k ohms and 3 k ohms(2000 ohms and 3000 ohms)
Robert Day
DieHard
victoria
v8 & TT

Posts: 769
Reg: 01-2007

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 09:31 pm, by:  Robert Day (Lexsmaz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As Tom said , it would be 2 k ohms not just 2 either way low is good high is bad & low will not cause a issue in any way & if they are passing on that information to you about a low reading lead I would seriously wonder about there diagnosing skills & if they fix it by the sounds of it so far it will be trial & error & a bit of luck too ?? ..
Dave Rose
Goo Roo
wa
UZZ31 / ML320 CDI

Posts: 2483
Reg: 03-2007

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 10:25 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


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Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1916
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 11:04 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

has the order been double checked? Daves diag above shows where each plug should be on the disti.
Robert Day
DieHard
victoria
v8 & TT

Posts: 770
Reg: 01-2007

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Thursday, August 21, 2014 - 11:56 pm, by:  Robert Day (Lexsmaz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave's layout above is good, but don't get to hung up on the resistance values. so long as they are close to that or lower it will not be an issue, the standard some years ago & i'm sure is still pretty close was up to 6,000 or 6 k ohms per foot of lead, so a 2 foot lead should ideally be no more than 12 k & if lower that is absolutely no issue & high issues are if a 2 foot lead is 40 k or even a lot more, then you can get missing etc etc .. Breaking down of the insulation of the lead can be an issue & cause tracking etc, but as you said these are not that old it should be fine .
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 971
Reg: 12-2010

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Friday, August 22, 2014 - 09:17 am, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They told me this-
After market leads have less (can't remember if if the word they used was resistance but they were saying less spark). Typically 5 compared with 15 from factory leads. They then told me left bank two middle ones have a lower number. One is 2 one is 3.
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1917
Reg: 08-2005

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Friday, August 22, 2014 - 11:33 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

as robert said above, leads are normally ~5-6k ohms per 300mm. they are talking k ohms, but i do not think what they are saying is "true" regarding after market leads. The middle 2 on the passenger side should have the highest resistance in the set and read ~ the same as the middle 2 on the drivers side. If not there is a problem with the leads.

Has it been checked they are correctly connected?

After illiminating the leads, timing should be checked as outlined previously
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 972
Reg: 12-2010

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Friday, August 22, 2014 - 12:20 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The said they checked timing with a timing gun. I did the left bank with old leads I took off which I know to be good. Same issue. Will look at other side later. The miss is much worse when it cold. When it warms up it's not as bad but still can't go hard. Could it be coil? I've had a failed coil before and it was much different to this unless it's just breaking down not completely dead.
Scott Vim
DieHard
Vic
Soarer (1uz) Chaser (1jz)

Posts: 973
Reg: 12-2010

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Friday, August 22, 2014 - 12:39 pm, by:  Scott Vim (1uz1jz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting. When it's warm it doesn't really miss that much but its completely gutless when I put the foot down. It's got an m90 on it so usually it goes pretty well. Just had no go at all. Does this sound like timing or still could it be an ignition problem? I asked them to check the timing twice before I picked it up. I don't know how to check timing or TDC myself but cam covers are off. Should I bite the bullet and get a new set of eagle leads and try that first. I only have 7 spare leads. Replaced 4 so far and the two coil leads. Really is just horrible, has taken all the enjoyment out of my Soarer.
Robert Day
DieHard
victoria
v8 & TT

Posts: 771
Reg: 01-2007

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Friday, August 22, 2014 - 01:11 pm, by:  Robert Day (Lexsmaz) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only thing they have replaced that is going to cause a issue is the timing belt so that needs checking first to make sure it aligns up properly, you say they said it would barely run if a tooth out that is Bullshit, many teeth out is a different situation, but not just out by one tooth ..

Tom mentions it briefly in this post & for a fuller description maybe google it or even on youtube ??
Tom Richards
Goo Roo
nsw
V8

Posts: 1918
Reg: 08-2005

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Friday, August 22, 2014 - 01:22 pm, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

scott, can you get someone to help you check this?

put a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt and pull the engine around until you see the mark on the harm balancer line up with the TDC mark. with the disti covers off, the rotor contact should line up with a mark on the housing. If it is 180' out, pull the harm balancer around 1 turn and align the marks again. Both rotors should align with the mark on the housing. if they do not, the timing is out.

Before doing this , make sure the spark leads are correctly connected.

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