Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 11:35 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Hi guys,
We have the Soarer bible - a bunch of documents which were found/researched and translated by a Soarer guru years ago. 5000 hours went into it apparently... Now - has Toyota or Lexus ever kicked up a stink about this, or what's the go here? Just curious of the legality of the thing.
The following is based on things I've read around the forums.
It's being sold for $100 I believe, by the person who 'formed' it.
The 'book' is totally ripped off from genuine toyota/lexus documents from what I understand.
Some Japanese text was translated into English and so on.
There is no official English manual for the Japanese UZZ31/UZZ32 soarers that I am aware of, so maybe they can get away with it?
I'd like the book very much - but am not going to pay $100 for it.
I am aware that many hours went in to it - and that it is very informative (although some people say it's 60% still in Japanese, and is mildly useless). I am also aware that it is 'priceless' apparently.
On top of that, I respect what this person has done for us - regardless of legal status.
What is the legality status of the book? Has he been in trouble, or so on?
The book is apparently 'stolen works' from Toyota and Lexus.
How can they charge $100 for something which is not owned by them as such?
Did they get permission?
I really have no idea about the bible,who the makers are, and so on - but am considering acquiring it.
Just curious of the legality of it and so on really
**update** - I just found the bible on an internet site for free. - Still curious of the bible's legality however.
Sunday, December 07, 2014 - 01:20 am, by: Roland Elliott(Aussie2013)
The Bible is a great resource, and if i could understand Japanese I would not need it, I have not found the 60 percent japanese yet in it, I believe it needs some updates as of now in relation to new repairs etc.. legally who knows where it stands except a good legal entity. There has been some people uploading it to sharing sites, which in itself is illegal in Australia.
Sunday, December 07, 2014 - 03:40 am, by: Boris Siljanoski(Z2tt)
Hi Rob.
I have no idea if Toyota have complained about it, most likely not.
The Soarer Bible contains fully translated wiring diagrams for the 1990 Onwards Soarer, this was done by two people, Jeff Harper and his wife. They spent many hours translating the wiring diagrams as nothing like this was available before.
The other non translated parts and English USA manuals are there as a Bonus.
The reason they are selling it for $100, is because of the large amount of time and effort spent translating the wiring diagrams. If it were so easy everybody else would have done it before them.
The money that can be saved by having English translated wiring diagrams can far outweigh the money it costs to pay an Auto electrician $120 an hour to trace wire by wire to find out what it does.
When the Soarer community was in it's Heyday, some of this funding from the Bible was also used to fund the websites and club.
You have to understand you cannot simply goto Supercheap auto and buy English Soarer wiring diagrams.
We contribute many bits of useful information unconditionally, but you got to understand certain things come at a cost.
I have also translated all the Soarer wiring diagrams for 1986-1990 (Classic Soarer), which I use myself to fix problems and sell to those who require it.
Monday, December 08, 2014 - 12:57 pm, by: Matthew Sharpe(Madmatt)
$100, not even 2/3rds of a tank of petrol... honestly it's not worth winging about - if $100 means that much to you, then you own the wrong car because Soarers are not cheap to maintain.
Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 08:02 am, by: Ben Lipman(Ben12a)
Hopefully no one else is selling it - it was Jeff and his wife that translated the thing.
I got the whole set,and even went to the trouble of getting it printed and put into a folder for easy shed reference.
I also had the Electronic Parts Catalogue (EPC), but it wont load onto my windows 7 Laptop. If some one has a newer version or knows where to get it I would love to know. It wasn't a problem until ToyoDIY had the pictures taken down.
Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 06:36 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Just to make things clear here - Nobody is whining as such. Just curious is all
I mean, even though he did get it translated and helped LOTS n LOTS of people I assume - the original works are still property of Toyota/Lexus.. So , does he pay them royalties also, orrr....
Coz.. I think it should be free really... It is not covered by warranty or copyrights or so on - and thus, if you go by the book and ruin your engine or similar, you are not covered by any insurance of any kind... Lets say for example - something was mistranslated.
Although you are paying for 'his works', the original documents, and half the book as such is compiled of genuine toyota/lexus documents... etc.
So yeah, just curious. They would have made a fortune out of it
Friday, December 12, 2014 - 01:10 am, by: Boris Siljanoski(Z2tt)
Rob you need to understand the reason for the cost is the effort put in and the value others put on it. Many people Value japanese-english translated info, its why they pay for it.
If it was so easy to do, everybody would have done it by now, it does not matter what you think you need to open your eyes.
Friday, December 12, 2014 - 07:27 am, by: Matthew Salkeld(Munkymatt)
I think Rob understands that. He's just pointing out that Toyota still owns the underlying work and if they chose to pursue the matter, would handily come out ahead. What Rob is getting at is that yes, taking someone else's work and dressing it differently is pirating, even if that translation work is 'real work' or 'real added value'. A bit like putting subtitles on a pirated movie is still an infringement. Everybody knows this, but in the case of a Soarer service manual - the odds of litigation are vanishingly small and the community benefit is very high - so nobody really cares; and rightly so.
Monday, January 19, 2015 - 12:27 pm, by: Patrick Fenis(Soarer_beast)
There's a few sites selling the bible now. Pretty sure the cash isn't even going to the person who made it now. You can even get it from p2p sites apparently. Would be nice to have though!
Sunday, March 08, 2015 - 11:52 am, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Soarer bible does not include EMV info. Does not include AIRBAG suspension info. Does not include basically everything we bought the bible for.
Soarer bible is basically a stock UZZ30 english manual - with two japanese manuals for the uzz31 - with all bits about the uzz31 still in japanese. Does have wiring diagrams though.
Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 12:07 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Hi Boris,
I actually picked up the file from a friend who purchased it years ago - i figured i would purchase a copy from the maker if the book was worth it as such, as he would have helped out quite a bit with my issues.
But nothing is in this book - and I did not actually pay yet.
I already have 3 manuals and 2 japanese books from when I bought the soarer - and to be honest, they offer the same, if not more information than the bible has as such.
The manual is great if you own a UZZ30 however. Just completely irrelevant for a UZZ31/32.
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