Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - 07:04 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Hi guys,
The overflow bottle in the V8. When the car is cold, should it be empty, or full?
I'm trying to work out if I have a water leak, or so on.
There are no signs of water loss, aside from the fact that the overflow bottle is 'empty' each few days...
Car does not overheat - and refilling overflow bottle only takes about 1 litre or a tad more.
After a refill, i park at the shops and a small pool of water is under the car. Unsure if it's coming out of the overflow pipe, or the waterpump/block.
By the time i get out to look, the dripping has stopped or what not.
So - the question is: Is the overflow bottle supposed to be full, or is it supposed to be empty when the car is first started for the day? The 'cold' mark, indicates it should be full when cold I believe...
But when i fill it up, drive to the shops and stop - it leaks out the overflow pipe ( i think). This suggests that the overflow is too full perhaps, and i've been topping it up each week, only to have the topped up water come right out the hose each day...
So, is the coolant level fine? Have i just been topping up for nothing? Never takes more than 1.5L to fill it.
Does the overflow bottle only fill itself when hot? - if so, why is there a 'cold' mark on the bottle? - Why does this mark point to the top of bottle?
Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - 07:28 pm, by: Tom Richards(Tomr)
tank is low when cold, fills up when hot. If you fill it cold. it will over flow. water under car could be from A/C
To fill correctly, engine running, heater full on. Remove 19mm? bolt from near thermostat and fill thru that hole until no air in system. Top up overflow bottle.
Tuesday, November 25, 2014 - 08:10 pm, by: Scott Vim(1uz1jz)
I've always filled the overflow to the top and never had any leaks. I had the block leak and the dash warning would come on to let me know coolant was low every 3 or 4 months but only ever took couple of litres. I thought the v8 overflow bottle was designed to be filled all the way. I also used to bolt to top up and get air out.
Thursday, November 27, 2014 - 02:20 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Ermm.
Ok, so ...
On the side of the overflow bottle, it has an arrow pointing to the top of the bottle - which says 'cold'.
Should it be full when cold, or empty when cold?
Right now my overflow is empty when cold...
When i put water in, i assume when the car heats up, the hot liquid pushes the water in the overflow (that i just filled) - out through the overflow hose and on to the floor...
*If the overflow is empty when cold, When the car warms up there should be no puddle under the car as the hot liquid will have enough room to expand in the overflow...
*If the overflow is filled to the brim when cold however, as the mark suggests it should be, there will be no room for the hot liquid to expand, and it will leak out of the overflow hose...
So.. Should it be full or empty? Why does the mark claim it should be full when 'cold' ...?
... Or is 'cold' some kind of code for 'coolant', and is the arrow just saying 'put me in here'?
Thursday, November 27, 2014 - 07:41 pm, by: Tim Schroeter(790)
Rob, Ignore the cold mark, mine probably has one too but it doesn't matter. Things you can do to check. Rules of a pressurised cooling system. 1. Fill when cold. 2. Idle car with heater on & rad cap off till thermostat opens. ( you can tell when this happens as top rad tank gets hot to touch) Watch filler neck & keep topping up water till all air is expelled. ( no more bubbles). Note:. If bubbles don't stop even when car is hot, COULD be leaking head gasket. 3. Turn off & allow to cool down, top up water, fit cap 4. Run normally. You will loose a little water the next time the car heats up normally, prob 500ml max. When car cools down again it will suck air into the reservoir through the cap. This will be your normal water level.
You shouldn't have to fill up every day. 1.5 litres is too much to fill every time.Check the following. 1. Cap, if more than 2 years old replace it, they deteriorate with use. If faulty they allow too much water to be expelled when hot. 2. Tighten all hoses when cold. Idle car till hot , with cap on, watching for any signs of water leaking from hoses, radiator etc. 3. If still using too much water could be water pump,heater core, head gasket. these are hard to see unless really bad. Hope this helps.
Friday, November 28, 2014 - 12:41 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Hi Tim, thanks for the reply.
I really only noticed this issue last month, and have filled the overflow 4-5 times since. I figured "car does not overheat if the bottle is empty in the morning, so it's probably fine" - and i read that newer cars have empty overflow bottles til liquid expands, so... seems right.
I'm pretty sure the radiator level is fine, as i've never seen a leak from the bottle - and it never takes more than around 1L to fill up.
So - all leaks are due to the overflow being filled up too much by myself i think.
Ok, radiator cap question!
The cap looks terrible. It does not release liquid - which is good. Temps stay in the middle, or 1 notch cooler when on the freeway.
I note my cap has a button on top... Should this button be pushed in, or popped out?
- 1 last thing...The overflow bottle itself seems to 'wiggle' when pressure is applied... Like it's missing a screw or something - only I can't find any missing screws...
Is yours firm? Or does it wiggle?
(If anyone has an image of overflow screws - that'd be helpful also)
Sunday, November 30, 2014 - 11:58 am, by: Peter Nitschke(Pen)
The overflow bottle is just clipped in to place, so can wiggle.
The hot/cool lines indicate where the level should be when the system is hot/cold.
Some people call it a "bubble tank" and say it's job is to collect air bubbles in the system, which also makes sense.
You can fit an empty drink bottle down under the tank, over the overflow pipe to collect any overflow, just hold it in place with some duct tape or similar. That way you can confirm if it is overflow from the radiator you have been seeing on the ground.
The location of the puddle would also be a clue.
Looking from the front, radiator overflow is close to front on the drivers side. A/C dribbles are near the firewall on the passengers side, close to the middle.
Rob, you need to think more about your diagnostic skills, look for clues, and try to make sense of the clues you have.
Your enthusiastic approach is a bit like firing a shotgun and hoping that one of the pellets kills the fly.
Monday, December 01, 2014 - 01:12 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Hi guys thanks for the new replies.
Peter, this was part of my diagnostic 'skillset' as such lol.
I've read on this site that the v8 overflow bottle cracks every 60k miles or so, and I noticed i had no liquid in there 'usually'... So, put two and two together, and yeah, here we are - I like the idea about the drink bottle under the overflow hose however! - that is a good idea. I think i'll try that this week.
Scott - With the temp gauge sitting 1 notch off center on the freeway, are you sure that it should always be in the center? I do 100km's every few days on the freeway - seemingly 'when ever I'm on the freeway' the temp gauge always takes longer to reach mid temp, and usually sits 1 notch cooler til sitting in traffic again.
The gauge has never gone over half temp (where it should be).
The gauge takes 10 mins or so to reach mid temp upon starting car also... (maybe 15).
If i start the car, and drive off 30 seconds later, the temp stays lower for at least 20km's.
I just assumed this was due to the amount of wind coming in on the freeway, lowering temps... As soon as I get off and come to the lights, the temp gauge creeps up again.
- Did have a 1998 ford fairmont... Radiator blocked, split... Changed radiator and stat... Car always sat too low on temp gauge ever since... Never higher than 1 notch lower than medium temp.
In fact, the last 5 cars I've had all had gauge issues come to think of it... They all sat 1 bar/notch lower than middle temp...
Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 05:15 am, by: Scott Vim(1uz1jz)
The whole point to the thermostat is to keep your engine at optimum temperature. If it moves down it must be stuck open. Your car will use a bit more fuel etc. It should not move once it has reached operating temperature. Also should not take half hour the reach operating temp. Mine is warm within 5-10 minutes.
Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 03:56 pm, by: Patrick Fenis(Soarer_beast)
Peter said "The hot/cool lines indicate where the level should be when the system is hot/cold. "
If that is true, the overflow bottle should be FULL when cold, as the cold mark is right up the top of the overflow bottle.
My bottle only has a cold line and it is sitting about 1 inch from the top of the bottle. My bottle is usually empty also...
I never overheat according to the gauge, but do have a lack of power like Rob apparently. This could be a coolant temp issue, or lack of.
So, if "The hot/cool lines indicate where the level should be when the system is hot/cold", that means that when cold, the soarer's overflow bottle should be basically full.
Right?
Peter Nitschke Junk Filterer South Australia UZZ30 UZZ31
Friday, January 16, 2015 - 12:55 am, by: Peter Nitschke(Pen)
Yes. I just checked a couple of tanks, 91 and 97, neither has a hot line.
If the bottle is usually empty, you need to find out why. It's not like a normal overflow bottle which rises when hot and lowers as it cools and coolant sucks back into the radiator.
The V8's are hard to overheat as the radiator is so big and the hydraulic fan works very well, so that's not an indicator that things are all good.
Friday, January 16, 2015 - 04:24 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
... I knew it should have been full.
When i get up in the morning, the tank is usually empty.
- I completely missed Scott's post also - This would have saved me a lot of time.
The coolant issue is probably where my lack of power originates then. I've not worried about the overflow bottle being empty for about a month now as I misread that the bottle should of been empty. But - no issues, no overheating - nothing. Mostly 20km back n forth freeway drives though. Lack of power - til the car gets moving.
Today I filled the overflow up after reading this thread - turned car on - and it just started pissing out the overflow hose as it warmed up.
Does this suggest air in the system, or a bad cap?
I've filled it up a few times since i noticed it was empty a couple of months ago - but it never took more than 800ml or so. Temp gauge was pretty much reading fine also.
If there are no leaks elsewhere - and water is only pissing out the overflow hose, Where do I go from here?
Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 12:14 pm, by: Rob Charles(Pearl_white)
Tom, You said 'read my earlier post', so I scrolled up and did. Unsure what you're hinting at here... You said the overflow should be low when cold. You also gave me instructions on how to fill coolant.
The earlier posts in this thread state there is a COLD line on the overflow. It is right up the top of the bottle. This suggests that when cold - the water in the overflow bottle should be full. It should be full at all times when the car is cold, as the 'cold' mark is right at the top of the bottle itself. The soarer cooling system seems to work differently from Fords and Holdens apparently. In a 1990's Ford, coolant expands when hot and fills the overflow bottle. In the Soarer, the cold mark is right up the top of that bottle. In the Ford, the cold mark is at the bottom.
Also - The only leak under the car is from the overflow hose itself.
The overflow bottle: Peter said it should be full when cold - not empty or low. Pat said the same thing - or hinted at it. Scott also said it should always be full or what not.
What is the final consensus here? SHOULD COOLANT CONSTANTLY BE FILLED UP TO THE COLD LINE (as marked) OR NOT?
But, if you were referring to the coolant refill, that's how I plan to do it
Saturday, January 17, 2015 - 12:29 pm, by: Tom Richards(Tomr)
rob, you are making it too complicated. half fill the overflow bottle when cold and you will have no problems if your complete system is ok. Do it the correct way as described above. Until you do that you will have air locks in the system and it will NOT work correctly. Also you are wasting your time and every one elses by not working in the correct sequence.
Previous
