Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 12:51 pm, by: Damien Smith(Damien)
Does anyone know if it's possible to force the ECU into open loop all the time without it defaulting to limp home mode?
It'd be a good way to see what effect fuel changes are having without the ECU interfering and it'd be much easier to ensure that the AFR is close to stoich in the zones where the ECU would be running in closed loop.
Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 04:17 pm, by: Damien Smith(Damien)
Yeah, well not get it the same as stock but at least to see if it's in the same ballpark.
I've found that if you deviate too far away from the AFR that the ECU is trying to run in closed loop, it goes nuts and you don't know what AFR your map truly gets. It wouldn't come up as much with a standard piggyback where you just + or - what's already there, but with a MAP-ECU where I'm having to mimic the output of the AFM over a 374 point table it would be easier to get direct feedback without the ECU interfering.
As an example, I've found that if my MAP-ECU says too much air is going in which makes it richer, closed loop then sees how rich it is and swings the AFR all the way to full lean. It happens so fast the wideband O2 meter looks like it's way too lean, but it's in fact the opposite. Took me a few weeks to work that out and it was only one of Rogers posts above that made the penny drop, so thanks for saving my sanity Roger
Back onto the SMT6, what does it use the engine temperature input for? Can it be used to tweak it for cold start?
Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 06:08 pm, by: Roger Costello(Roger)
If you want to run open loop continuously without going into limp home mode, disconnect the oxygen sensors. You will get a fault code but the ECU should use the standard maps and behave normally. Check that it is not too rich as you don't want to destroy your catalytic converters.
Monday, April 10, 2006 - 07:04 pm, by: Anish Varsani(Yomama)
Car's getting tuned at Redcliffe Dyno on Wednesday. Will let you know how it goes. The guy's there recon they have the equipment required to scan the ecu to see when it's open loop and when the knock sensor correction is taking place. I'll have a talk to them regarding the options for tuning ie: max power and response irrespectife of fuel economy and an economy tune with improved response.
Monday, April 10, 2006 - 07:52 pm, by: Justin McLernon(Zz32)
That's great Anish, please post up a copy of your global settings, and your ignition and fuel maps once tuned. Plus of course your before / after power & torque maps and AFRs.
Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 06:34 am, by: Anish Varsani(Yomama)
Ok. The global settings have been posted up by Peter but once the unit comes back, I'll download the map file with global settings off the unit and post it up.
Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:17 am, by: Justin McLernon(Zz32)
Cheers Anish that'd be great. My setup is very similar to yours (2.5 twin exhaust, headers, intake) so I'd expect your map to be pretty good base for my tune.
Make sure you ask your tuner to do a base power run so you can compare final power/torque with original (you may need to reset the SMT6 fuel/ign settings to 0 so that the base tune is "stock").
Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 11:24 am, by: Anish Varsani(Yomama)
Will do. I've got a zero map in there now and the ECU is reset. I'll fill it up with optimax tonight. I havn't bothered with the temperature sensor calibration because I don't have a thermometer to calibrate it with. I've got a thermal imager at work. I might scan a few points (radiator top tank, thermostat housing, etc at operating temperature and just put the multiplier in afterwards. Once the timing and fuel settings are in, I'll be able to fiddle with the data logging aspect later.
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 04:22 pm, by: Justin McLernon(Zz32)
Peter: what are the global settings for the SMT6 on a V8 Soarer? I see you have listed some of the global settings but what other values (if any) do we need to enter/adjust?
Also, can you please confirm the wiring diagram you have provided on the 2nd page of this thread is now correct (you mentioned there were some errors regarding the oxy sensors)? I cannot find any information regarding either maps or diagrams on the link you have provided (I get a blank page).
I'd be most grateful if you could make available for us new SMT6 owners:
1. base maps (ignition and fuel) 2. complete list of global settings 3. correct SMT6 wiring diagram for Toyota Soarer 1UZ-FE
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 04:49 pm, by: Anish Varsani(Yomama)
Got the car back. Pulled 158kW at full noise with an AFR of 11.3:1. The stock afr was 10.1:1. The clown had the aircon on when he did the run so there might be a few more there.
The tuner said that there wasn't much gain by adding much timing down low because the ecu was pulling it out. Added 1 degree in most places.
The ecu only went open loop at full throttle, not 75% as I'd read.
I'll upload the graph tommorow after I scan it along with vehicle details.
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 04:59 pm, by: Damien Smith(Damien)
The base maps for ignition and fuel are all 0's - ie no change. Then it's best to take it to a dyno to tune or wait until someone else has and get a copy of their map but every car will be different.
I wired my SMT6 in for ignition only (as I have a MAP-ECU for fuel) and it's very simple. I followed the diagram that Peter posted on the first page of this topic (near the bottom), but the the pinout diagram Peter has is looking *at* the plug, not at the back of the plug where the wires poke out. The one I posted at the top of that page is the mirror image to Peter's as it's looking at the back of the plug.
Global settings are: Ignition tab * Teeth per turn - 12 * Teeth per firing - 3
Modes tab * 10 - Single ignition advance and retard + frequency fuel
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:07 pm, by: Damien Smith(Damien)
Anish, not bad mate. 11.3:1 is still very rich for an NA car. 12-12.5:1 is safe and some dyno guys I've spoken to reckon low 13's is the go but that would be far too close to the limit IMHO.
I've also noticed it stays in closed loop until you mash it.
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:13 pm, by: Justin McLernon(Zz32)
Anish Varsani wrote on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 04:49 pm:
The tuner said that there wasn't much gain by adding much timing down low because the ecu was pulling it out. Added 1 degree in most places.
Those are very minor timing adjustments Anish! Im surprised the ECU was pulling timing, particularly at low load-RPM where there would be much benefit to be had for torque gains, I would have thought it would be safe to add 5 or 6 degrees or even more timing in these cells.
Also, low to mid 11 AFRs is VERY rich for an NA car. I'd have thought 12s would be safe and there would be more power to unlock at these leaner ratios...
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:17 pm, by: Anish Varsani(Yomama)
Justin, I'll post up the stuff tommorow at work. I don't have a scanner at home.
Dosn't feel that much better off the mark. The tuner put 2 degrees in the second cell corresponding to close throttle so it stalls at the lights sometimes with the AC off. I'll change it to 1 degree. Was suprised at the lack of timing that was added.
It takes off a lot harder when mashed, it dosn't bog down like before.
I've got the map switch wired and the second map is a zero map.
The headers and exchaust gave the best bang for the buck. If I'd paid $1300 for the unichip I'd be very disappointed. For $785 tuned and the ability to use the datalogging features and fiddle with settings, I'm not complaining.
Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 05:31 pm, by: Justin McLernon(Zz32)
Those results sounds quite disappointing.
I would have been looking for improved torque and throttle response across a useable range - not just at full noise. The way to achieve this would be through a comination of adding timing and leaning the AFRs, which is why I am shocked at the relatively rich AFRs and miniscule timing adjustments made by your tuner. With such minor adjustments, no wonder it doesn't feel any different off the mark!
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