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Keiran Beytagh
Newbie
CBD
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 1
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 02:09 pm, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A few months ago I jumped in my car and my ABS light came on.

No ABS.

Amazing timing as an old lady pulled out in front of me on a very wet motorway.
Locked up very hard.
End of the motorway I discovered the warped brakes.

Only really felt it going over 80k.

I now own some turbo brakes but yet to have all the money for bigger wheels yet.

Factory 15's.

My brakes seem to be back to 95% working. No Shake.

Has anyone else seen this before? Just seemed a bit odd, so wondering if my problems are else where?
Eg Tyres, as I've changed them and noticed a change?

I remember the shake been more through the car and I have planned to plane the rears at the same time.
(10 years service history that shows fronts have been done before)

Just looking for some more ideas before doing this job.
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6725
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 02:48 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Keiran, when ABS kicks in, it feels like warped brakes as the pedal shudders due to the pumping action of the ABS.

Without ABS, the brakes would just lock up and the car would slide, no shudder in the pedal.

You might want to do some tests to have a better idea if the ABS is working, or if it is warped rotors before deciding what to do about it.
Brian Timms
Tinkerer
New South Wales
180sx DET

Posts: 17
Reg: 12-2006

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 03:16 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, for those who have ABS, and have come from a car previously with ABS, I recommend learning the ABS.

I have been in 5 different cars, all with ABS, and all of which have acted, handled, and driven different under ABS conditions.

Personally, when I get a car with ABS, I like to go somewhere SAFE and test the ABS, learn how it reacts and interacts with everything else, and what the car feels like, before, during and after ABS usage.

I did this with a Rental Camry Sportivo a few months ago before taking it for a trip in rural NSW, and I am glad I did, as I encountered a few Kangaroos, and knowing how the car felt under ABS gave me a better chance to steer and control the car more successfully while under braking.

Every car's braking capacity and ability is different, even 2 identical looking TT Soarers will perform differently, so have a play somewhere safe, and learn the car.

My 180sx was meant to have ABS, but I found out it doesn't when I went playing, she locked up 100% every time I hammered the brakes, later on, after the bonnet cable, there was no friggin ABS, but I learnt the way the brakes work, and I can hammer them and not lock up fully, remain in control, and have steering.

B.
Aaron Mead
DieHard
NT
TT

Posts: 968
Reg: 03-2006

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 03:33 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keiran, if your ABS unit is shot, thats not good. Im not sure about toyota, but i think the ABS sensor in the diff centre housing, the ABS unit itself in the passenger side engine bay.

You mentioned the brakes are back to normal? DOes the ABS kick in (MASH the brake pedal at 35km/h, or slower in the wet. Should have a very noticeable vibration through your left foot, also should be audible, like a crunching sound. The ABS light comes on under operation normally, i.e. if you brake hard enough to activate the ABS, it should light up.

Dont know why you'd have warped brakes, leads me to think you have a sticking caliper, or are using far too hard a pad compound. Let us know eh?
Aaron Mead
DieHard
NT
TT

Posts: 969
Reg: 03-2006

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 03:34 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I noticed you said 'motorway'.

Not one of our choice brothers from accross the pond are ya?
Keiran Beytagh
Newbie
CBD
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 3
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 04:05 pm, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the reply guys. Yeah im one of those stunning Kiwi's breed just to beat the Aussies in rugby!!

Peter, The shudder was after the lock up. I feel i was close to having 4 wheels locked at a point which makes me think i stressed one point of the disks...

I do know 100% that i don't have ABS working. Had it like this for months now.

I do car audio for a living and drive lots of cars everyday and tested lots of abs system since this... Great ABS system on most toyota's. Very smooth. VX Holden felt like crap i thought.

Do you guys feel the brakes getting 'unwrapped' by the car is to do with abs?

Could my Calipers / pistons be getting sticky? Would you guys agree that it would put feed back through the pedal not car? Wasn't any pedal shake..

Just seems really really odd how it has fixed itself over a few months... And the little difference after changing wheels?
Keiran Beytagh
Newbie
CBD
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 4
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 04:11 pm, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, dont know what pads they are. Had car for 11 months. They seem normal.

As for rear sensors there is 2 in the rear. Same sorta place as the fronts. In the hub area...
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6728
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 04:44 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, I am confused about what you mean by "wrapped" and "unwrapped". At first I thought you were having a rugby moment and meant "warped", :-) but now I am not so sure.
Avin Luther
Goo Roo
vic
Soarer uzz31 Limited

Posts: 1124
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:09 pm, by:  Avin Luther (Lex_luther) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am more concerned with why a stereo installer is 'Testing' the ABS of MANY cars.
Keiran Beytagh
Newbie
Wellington
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 5
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:11 pm, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow... I screwed up didnt i. More of a soccer moment.

Really really sorry guys. I mean warped. Pitty i cant change it now
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6732
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:11 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have to make sure the speakers don't rip out of the back shelf under heavy braking perhaps?
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6733
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:13 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can edit your own posts for a few hours (2nd icon from left at top right of the post you want to edit) but you can't edit the thread title.
David Vaughan
Goo Roo
ACT
V8 Ltd manual

Posts: 2772
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:14 pm, by:  David Vaughan (Davidv) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

24 hours, isn't it?
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6734
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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:17 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah, well that's a few... :-)
Keiran Beytagh
Tinkerer
Wellington
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 6
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:20 pm, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha. The dodge stereo guy ya recon!? I made it sound like that didnt I. Likely it doesnt need much when you do it on rainy days. Just trying to fix my car brother...

As Brian was also saying... Best to test things so when crap does happen your ready.
Keiran Beytagh
Tinkerer
Wellington
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 7
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:44 pm, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys, can we please get back to the post... Everyone knows what i was meaning. Easy typo

Is there any chance of my disks after been warped to straighten themselves without removal? My fronts had been planned 30,000km before which makes me think they are weaker then normal. Just seems odd to everyone I have talked to about this.
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6735
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 06:16 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think it's your rotors being warped. Rotors warp by getting very hot then cooling unevenly. One hard stop in the wet wouldn't do it is my guess.

It's possible that your brake pads cooked a bit and some of it stuck to the rotor, there are write ups that say this is actually the cause of disks feeling warped when in fact they aren't.

Soft pads can cook onto the rotors, usually it's quite visible. (See the dark band).

Upload




My own experience with warped rotors was that it was more noticeable at speed and with light braking. Heavier braking possibly reduces the feel of it due to tighter clamping by the callipers.

I think you need to try investigate further.

Try light braking at low, medium, and high speed.
Try heavier braking (but not to lockup) at low, medium, and high speed.
Is there an observable pattern to the shudder?

Side note, after a heavy track day on street tyres, I have noticed the brakes have a fluttery feel for a while due to the heavy wear on the tyre shoulders and feathering. It goes away eventually, but it's not the same feeling as a warped rotors it happens at a faster vibration rate.
Keiran Beytagh
Tinkerer
Wellington
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 8
Reg: 01-2007

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 06:38 pm, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your onto-it' brother. That all makes a lot of sense and feel you could of answered my question perfectly. "How it got better"

I do remember seeing the disk look in similar condition a month back. Will look better tomo.

Thank you for your time with this... Really helps as i was about to rush buy new rims to fix this.

Have you got any smart ideas on my ABS problem on another topic? Love to hear your thoughts as this one is making my car legal right now... Thanks bro ;-)
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6738
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 06:44 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No idea about the other problem I am afraid, I haven't had any experience of problems with my ABS.
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria
Bog Standard Active and a pos factory Manual XF Falcon.

Posts: 1696
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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 10:50 pm, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You didn't possibly have a lock up due to the non ABS issue, and flat spot a tyre??

As for the ABS thing, I'd check all the fuses, both the box under the bonnet and the one at the drivers feet. Also check relays and what not, and also any obvious wiring and plugs that may have come off.

Then run the diagnostics and see if it has any ideas.
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6739
Reg: 11-2004

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Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:58 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt it actually locked up, or it would have been slidies on a wet road. Even if it did, how badly would you flat spot a road tyre on a single skid on a wet road? (I have no idea).

Plus the description of the judder is when braking at higher speeds where as a flat spot would be there all the time.
Keiran Beytagh
Tinkerer
Wellington
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 9
Reg: 01-2007

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Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 05:44 am, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree... It wasnt a full- on lockup. I was playing with it to prevent lockup. Only had a car for a few months too...

Maybe there was a little flat spot but might not all the problem.

To be honest i have not checked the inside fuses. On the todo list for today.

But would a faulty ABS sensor that i can get a resistance reading from (the same as the other side) give the open circuit reading to the computer? Also give problems before the car moves? Another one of those seems sorta odd problems. Could it be a cut wire? Why does the computer include the opposite corner in error 35? I have no wire diagram to follow the wire... Can anyone help?

THANK YOU.

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