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  Soarer Central * Brakes * Really strange braking. Previous Previous    Next Next  

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Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 401
Reg: 07-2006

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 05:42 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was forced to hit the brakes decently hard yesterday and as usual i felt the ABS going, a decent amount of pressure on the brake pedal.

Ok ... then the brake pedal tension disappears for a bit and the pedal travels quite far before i feel any tension again, I let off of the pedal and try again and the pedal is back to normal.

Any explanations or thoughts?
Keiran Beytagh
Tinkerer
Wellington
UZZ30 V8

Posts: 10
Reg: 01-2007

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 08:42 am, by:  Keiran Beytagh (Kezzainc) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Had this before also... Dont know the tech side to this but i've had this happen on a few cars but no problems after the instance. From a very old Mazda/Ford to my UZZ30 when ABS was working.

Nothing like the feeling when your brake petal hits the floor!!
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 404
Reg: 07-2006

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 08:44 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

kinda a gut clench oh sh!t feeling.
Tim Appleton
TryHard
QLD
UZZ31

Posts: 473
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 09:54 am, by:  Tim Appleton (Timbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like you may have an air bubble in your ABS. I'm not sure of it being just the ABS, but if your pedal hits the floor then 99% of the time it's air in the system.

The ABS system is not bled in the same fashion as the rest of the brake system. I don't fully understand the make-up of the ABS unit, but after some research a while ago I found that you there is a system to open the ABS unit up when bleeding the system that nobody wants to tell me about. You might try Toyota to bleed the ABS and brakes for you, or a brake specialist shop. It would be a good time to change your brake fluid as well, and a full bleed of the most important system on your car can't hurt.

EDIT: Can someone please clear up the bleed process for ABS systems. There's this tutorial from Planet Soarer for TRC models:
http://planetsoarer.com/mediumbrakes/masterbleed.htm
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 1877
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 10:59 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could also be hydrated brake fluid. Non synthetic and semi synthetic brake fluids will absorb any moisture they come into contact with - when they get too much water in them, the boiling point drops significantly, leading to the dreaded dead pedal as the fluid vaporises and compresses. Brakes fluid should be fully flushed every 2 years or so.
Dan McColl
Goo Roo
Victoria
Bog Standard Active and a pos factory Manual XF Falcon.

Posts: 1700
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 03:25 pm, by:  Dan McColl (Hoon) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you have TRC it will be because the accumulator has been depleted by the ABS operation. As you say, a few seconds later it should have built up sufficient pressure to work properly again.

If you're not getting any warnings, then I'd say it is ok.
Brian Timms
Tinkerer
New South Wales
180sx DET

Posts: 26
Reg: 12-2006

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 08:35 pm, by:  Brian Timms (Turbo_brian) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was driving a Honda Prelude once that did exactly this, a new Master Cylinder later, it was fixed.

Basically (not sure if this relates to Soarers or not), I hit the brakes so hard, that I fracturer the rubber that pushes the brake fluid, so it would take 1 push to get pressure into the system, and on the 2nd push, it would feel solid.

The other issue was that at the lights, foot on brakes, you would stop, the pedal would eventually travel to the floor, and slightly later the car would start rolling again, but re-pushing the pedal would bring the car to a stop, and the pedal would be solid again.

Might be worth just getting the brakes checked, the only 2 things I get re-checked by a pro are suspension and brakes, only because these 2 components are the things that will save your life.

B.
Aaron Mead
DieHard
NT
TT

Posts: 983
Reg: 03-2006

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Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 11:04 pm, by:  Aaron Mead (Aaron) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ive noted on older cars that master cylinders, dependiong on design, often allow fluid to travel past the cylider sleeve and pool in behind the master cylinder, only to come back after releasing the pedal through vaccuum.

Ive noted it a couple of times on HARD braking. Bleed the brakes properly (follow the correct pattern) then try it again to ensure that its not an air bubble.

How old is your fluid?
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 406
Reg: 07-2006

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Friday, January 05, 2007 - 01:50 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do have TRC so i'm assuming that it's likely just that the accumulator was depleted. But that being said these are brakes so I will be changing the brake fluid.

To explain the situation more thoroughly the pedal does not slowly transit to the ground when constant pressure is on it such as at a red light.

It was just this once and my foot didn't hit the ground it just dropped about 2-3 inches. Then the tension was back again but at a point further down the travel of the pedal than was normal yet release and try again and everything is back to normal.
Trevor Tai
TryHard
NSW
Soarer TT GT-TL

Posts: 149
Reg: 07-2005

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Monday, January 08, 2007 - 03:31 pm, by:  Trevor Tai (Quiksilva) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like what I use to have, bled the brakes twice and it improved a bit, next thing to do is get the ABS and master cylinder done i guess...
Scott Ferguson
TryHard
Alberta
Soarer GTT-L

Posts: 419
Reg: 07-2006

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Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 03:28 am, by:  Scott Ferguson (Scott_ferguson) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I've had the car since September and this is the first time that this has happened so not terribly concerned but will definately change the brake fluid and keep and eye on it.
Peter Burrett
TryHard
ACT
2.5 VVTi ST

Posts: 457
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 01:20 pm, by:  Peter Burrett (Burrett) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>....I've had progressive variability in braking which culminated last weekend with two brown trouser moments (flat to the floor, no brakes)....took it out to Neil's very carefully, and it appears that I have a master cylinder fekked as a result of contamination of brake fluid, possibly with oil... no idea how that could have happened
Tim Appleton
DieHard
QLD
UZZ31

Posts: 537
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 01:59 pm, by:  Tim Appleton (Timbo) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Got many enemies?
Benny Gammelmark
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 1843
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 03:17 pm, by:  Benny Gammelmark (Oldfield) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who does your service?
Maybe someone grabbed the wrong bottle when topping up the brake fluid.
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 2062
Reg: 10-2005

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Friday, February 09, 2007 - 06:43 am, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I poured white ceiling paint into a 10 litre pail of tinted wall paint a few weekends back... managed to get it all out with only about 1 litre of wasted paint. Makes me wonder if I've ever done something like that with the car and not noticed!
Benny Gammelmark
Goo Roo
NSW
V8 UZZ31

Posts: 1847
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, February 09, 2007 - 03:06 pm, by:  Benny Gammelmark (Oldfield) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't know you did his service Neil. Could still be someone else topping up his brake fluid.
Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6956
Reg: 11-2004

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Friday, February 09, 2007 - 03:58 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It might also have happened years ago?
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have WAY less Soarers than Hayden :-(

Posts: 5756
Reg: 05-2005

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Friday, February 09, 2007 - 04:36 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Pen, I can see it now............"Somewhere on a Soarer assembly line in 1997, a disgruntled employee decides to have his revenge, and pours incollect blake fluid into Sailplane".........

One decade later in the sleepy NSW village of Canbella, Mr.Bullett tlies to stop his onlushing Sailplane..........but alas.....NO BLAKES!!!!

Bullett San has pleasance of mind to go to Sensai Gliffiths, who is MASTER of Sailplane repair technique (4th Dan Black belt in Sailplane diagnosis!).

Soon Bullett San dliving all normal.....BIG relief!

Meanwhile, disgluntled employee no care, him living in Colorado on dude ranch with hot babe from Atomic Kitten!..........he live happily ever after.

Lemember: "For Number One Service........go ONLY to Gliffiths San's Sailplane Diagnosis & Lepair"





Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6957
Reg: 11-2004

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Friday, February 09, 2007 - 06:18 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please consider... It's only one decade since it was made, but if some oil got put in say 5 years ago, even if it has since been flushed, would it still eventually rot the seals?
Don Bagnall
Moderator
New Zealand
I have WAY less Soarers than Hayden :-(

Posts: 5761
Reg: 05-2005

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Friday, February 09, 2007 - 07:28 pm, by:  Don Bagnall (Baggs) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have fixed my post, and YES!

Peter Nitschke
JunkFilterer
South Australia
GT4.0 V8

Posts: 6962
Reg: 11-2004

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Friday, February 09, 2007 - 07:33 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eggzaccery!

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