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David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 131
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:00 am, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey all,

Since I had my car imported I've always had a leak on the tip of the boot where the brake pedal connects through the firewall.

Do I need to replace the entire master cylinder or can I buy a small part to replace the boot?

The pump and everything works great, just this leak in the bottom of the boot - I have a dirty floor mat :-(

I had a look through the EPC and found a few parts which look like they fix the issue but can't be sure.

I read every thread on SC with the words 'brake' and 'leak' and found nothing substantial.

Any help would be appreciated!
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1311
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:36 am, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From one David to another, any problems with brakes needs to be sorted as soon as.
Firstly find where the leak is originating from.
A new master cylinder isn't what you want to hear because it'll cost you thousands.
Make sure it's not just leaking down from your reservoir or pipe connection before going any further.
Adam Lonergan
DieHard
Victoria
UZZ32 #369 (V8)

Posts: 737
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:50 am, by:  Adam Lonergan (Alchemistal) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Installing a secondhand whole master cylinder will probably be the cheapest option for you, especially in WA. Just make sure you get the right one (with TRC and without TRC are different). Local wrecker would probably do you one with a warranty or you could simply ask Daniel Savage if he has any at the moment.
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 132
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 02:44 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I stick my head under the dash and pump the brakes I can see brake fluid swirl around the end of the boot, so I'm quite sure the problem is there. I might wipe it and press them again this afternoon.

You're right about Daniel, Adam, lined one up with Daniel but just wanted to make sure its the only solution to the problem, good to hear its the cheapest, I've spent so much on my car lately - the missus is really getting on my back about it!!

The pump, TRC and everything else on the brake system work really well, so I'm surprised it's showing such a problem!

Shame there isn't just a rubber seal kit I can buy to refurbish mine, but I'm grateful for this opportunity to get another :-)
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1312
Reg: 08-2005

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 07:27 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think you can buy a new master cylinder, it comes with the whole ABS/TRC distributer block.
If you can get a 2nd hand unit make sure the master cylinder is inspected, put new seals in and if there's any signs of scoring inside get it re-sleeved.
As you're quite happy with the pump and the rest just change the master cylinder but that will entail taking every thing off to do it so more labour charge. Keep the rest because you never know when yu'll need it.
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 134
Reg: 07-2005

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 10:46 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm will purchase Daniel's and find a local place which will recondition it.

The local Toyota dealership is expensive, might take it to a regular brake specialist instead. For the overhaul are there Toyota genuine parts or do you think they can source the parts themselves?

Thanks for the advice, in Mandurah I don't have many options here :-)
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1313
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 04:06 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd think a brake specialist should be able to recon a cylinder and maybe supply the seals.
Daryl Demarte
Tinkerer
Victoria
IS300 & UZZ32

Posts: 32
Reg: 04-2006

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Friday, August 22, 2008 - 12:42 pm, by:  Daryl Demarte (Helieng) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

David, New Toyota m/cyl seal kit 04493-24060 $125 I've just ordered one.
Adam Lonergan
DieHard
Victoria
UZZ32 #369 (V8)

Posts: 738
Reg: 08-2005

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Friday, August 22, 2008 - 12:48 pm, by:  Adam Lonergan (Alchemistal) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I assume that's the kit for TRC equiped cars and the kit is different for non-TRC?
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 138
Reg: 07-2005

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Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 10:26 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daryl,

Just to be clear, I looked up the part in the EPC and found it.

Are you saying that the cylinder kit you've quoted is the seal kit that I need to fix the leaking coming out of the bottom onto the pedal?

If so I think I have a master cylinder in my shed now that is going to be for sale very soon :-)
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 140
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 12:21 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok that really sucks, I just contacted my local toyota dealership to organise sourcing the kit etc.

My dealership said it would be $280 plus labour, IF the part is available from Japan as it can't be sourced locally.

Anyone suggest a dealership which is good with imports I could get the parts sent to?

The local dealership wants to send the master cylinder off to be refurbished and then an aftermarket seal kit installed for around the same costs. Not sure which option I should take..
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1317
Reg: 08-2005

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Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 12:25 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd go for the latter as you'll need the cylinder re-sleeved. No good just putting new seals into a cylinder that would rip them up.
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 141
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 04:13 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well this master cylinder I have sitting in the shed might come in handy to keep me on the road.

Might just provide that to them and have them swap over afterwards.

Cheers for the tip Dave :-)
Matthew Sharpe
Goo Roo
North Island
JZZ31

Posts: 3735
Reg: 10-2005

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Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 07:26 pm, by:  Matthew Sharpe (Madmatt) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Dave Hart wrote on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 12:25 pm:

I'd go for the latter as you'll need the cylinder re-sleeved. No good just putting new seals into a cylinder that would rip them up.




Not necissarily - if the old seals were just perished the cylinder walls may still be OK. Rule of thumb is if you can feel any bumps with your finger the cylinder lining is stuffed, otherwise it should be quite safe to simply re-kit it.
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 142
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 09:39 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys I'm so confused , please forgive my lack of understanding the inner workings of the brake system.

I'm not too familiar with how the master cylinder interfaces with the pedal, I tried to do some research on the net but couldn't find anything helpful.

Where the pedal pivots in the foot well, if I press the brake a little bit of brake fluid pools around the opening, is there a leak right there (is there normally something covering it up that is missing?) or is there a leak far further up inside the master cylinder and it is running all the way down to the bottom.

I just need to understand this, because I have a master cylinder sitting in the shed I could take and have repaired and then installed (to keep my car on the road). Alternatively they may need the whole car to fix a problem causing the leak where the pedal is.

Phew hope that makes sense. :-)

This is all in effort to have my car happy for my first soarer cruise next month.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 9905
Reg: 11-2004

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Friday, September 05, 2008 - 05:50 am, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This might help.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/master-brake1.htm

The pedal is connected directly to the master cylinder piston. So if the seals fail, then fluid leaks back past the piston and back into the car.

But please keep in mind, the brakes are the only thing that can save you and the car from carnage, so don't mess with them unless you completely understand what you are doing.
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 143
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, September 05, 2008 - 11:00 am, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheers for the link peter, admittedly I read that one and it didn't seem to address my question on whether the leak is occurring inside the foot well or up inside the master cylinder in the engine bay.

Just to confirm I don't intend to do any of this myself.

My questions are so I know what part needs fixing so I know whether I can get away with providing the dealership my unused spare Master Cylinder or whether they need my whole car to be apart and undriveable while the parts are sent off for refurbishment.

Thanks for the advice - sounds to me that I can just give Toyota the spare Master Cylinder and get that reconditioned, then give them my car for installation, less time off the road the better :-)
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 145
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, September 12, 2008 - 01:52 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm, I took my car and spare master cylinder to a local brake specialist.

They said it would be impossible to do a simple cylinder kit recondition cause the ABS complicates things and makes it a major job. I was told there are heaps of seals and it would be a lot of work. He suggested just to swap mine with my spare for a couple of hours labour.

I don't want to have the same problem down the track so I want to get it fixed right while I can. I'm thinking of ordering the genuine seal kit from Toyota, send the master cylinder and kit to a specialist brake rebuilding place (about 60K away) and get them to recondition it, then have it put it in my car. As I know my nitrogen accumulator seems to work well, it shouldn't be hard to swap them over too.

Any suggestions? :-)
Tom Richards
TryHard
nsw
V8

Posts: 119
Reg: 08-2005

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 08:49 am, by:  Tom Richards (Tomr) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

try here
http://www.diypartscatalog.com/RenderScriptTemplate.epc?_cmd=epccat_VehicleWHD&cookieID=2HH137BA62HH 137LSM&yearid=1992%40%401992&makeid=46%40%40LEXUS%40%40B&engineid=1187614%40%40SC400++%2F+V8%2D3967c c+4%2E0L+GAS+FI++%281UZFE%29%40%40SC400&catid=Brake+Components+%26+Wheels%40%40Brake+Components+%26+ Wheels&mode=PA&subcatid=Brake+Master+Cylinder@@Brake+Master+Cylinder
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 152
Reg: 07-2005

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Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 11:27 am, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Tom, however I already have a spare master cylinder.

I cleaned the outer and cleaned up all of the wiring, one of my mates is going to help me out with the swapover and we'll see how it goes!
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 153
Reg: 07-2005

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Friday, November 07, 2008 - 06:45 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys I'd like to share my experiences, although most of the information I used was from other threads, I feel the remainder of this post will help someone someday. :-)

I swapped the master cylinder over as a whole unit last weekend with a mate, easy process. I'll document my steps below.

1. Hook 2m of 5mm hose to the red bleed point on the master cylinder into an empty bottle, crack the nipple open.

2. Turn the car to ON and the pump will drive all of the fluid out, I ran the pump until it dried the tank out, then turned the car off.

3. Tighten the nipple, remove the hose and hook it onto the front bleed point on the master cylinder, crack the nipple.

4. Pump the pedal a few times to drive any remaining fluid out.

5. Undo all of the lines to the wheels from the master cylinder body.

6. Unplug all plugs attached to the assembly and loosen the bolts on the chassis which hold the back of the assembly up (don't take them off yet).

7. Inside the car, remove the bottom section of the dash, this makes it easier to remove the 4 bolts that hold the piston in place, take the 4 bolts out, the top right one was a pain, I removed a bolt near the brake pedal holding a computer bracket in place to get a better angle.

8. Remove the pin and rod holding the pedal to the piston, go back to the engine bay and finally remove the two bolts on the chassis that are holding the rear of the assembly up. Providing all has been unplugged you should be able to lift the assembly out of the car. Watch out for the cruise control cables and any other cables likely to get caught.

9. Do the reverse of all of these procedures to install the replacement master cylinder. Then use the guide on PlanetSoarer to bleed the ABS+Master cylinder in the correct order.

Here is mine out, ignore the orphan cable, that was from a previous project, gone now :-)


Upload


However!

My experiences where hindered by a secondhand master cylinder which probably had seen better days, the master cylinder itself was in great condition mechanically, but I had to do a bit of swapping of parts off mine to get it working properly.

After swapping master cylinders I drove around for the week with no ABS or TRC with a very firm pedal, the TRC pump was running very frequently resulting in an inconsistent pedal feel too. I had errors ABS 56, 51 and 54 and TRC error 43, I must admit I was getting pretty angry with the errors popping up every time I started the car.

I after researching SoarerCentral and SoarerWorld I found that the problems were the accumulator was low on nitrogen and the DVS sensor was faulty.

I pulled the replacement assembly out of my car and checked the DVS sensor with a multimeter - it was open circuit. I swapped this with my original DVS sensor which had a reading of 0 ohms - much better!

Then the accumulator - I could not get the blasted thing off, it was on so tight! So I decided to swap the whole pump and base assembly together, this worked out well as it gave me an opportunity to disassemble the pump and clean it out, it was full of brake dust and was due for a service.

The looms were quite dirty and tired, when the master cylinder arrived the plug was a little broken from the courier so I swapped this with mine, one pin at a time, very easy with a narrow screwdriver, I also replaced all the tubing that surrounds the looms too, now it all looks brand new!

I pulled the filter out of the reservoir and rinsed and dried it, it was full of gunk, I also blasted the inside of the reservoir out and left it to dry, over the years a lot of sludge must build up.

When I put everything back in the car using the steps above, I finally started the car and was met with errors, I was furious considering I'd spent all of today doing this. Just before I turned the car off the errors disappeared, I couldn't believe it so I started the car again, no errors at all. I turned the car off, put the car in diagnostics mode and turned the ignition to ON. I pumped the pedal rapidly 8 times in 3 seconds to clear the errors which were still apparent, turned the car off and on again, checked for errors - none!

Drove the car around the block a few times, brakes feel fantastic, no errors and a much cleaner looking master cylinder!


Upload


Thanks everyone and hope this helps someone. I'm off to clean my driveway now...
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1336
Reg: 08-2005

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Friday, November 07, 2008 - 08:57 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well done David but I notice there's no mention of the motor condition or if you ever managed to remove the accumulator. If you do get it off then you could send it off for refurbishing to have ready when the other packs a sad.
David Janiec
TryHard
WA
Soarer 4.0GT-L UZZ31

Posts: 154
Reg: 07-2005

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Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 04:01 pm, by:  David Janiec (Davidj) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The motor condition internally was good, just had a bit of black dust on the coils but it came off easy. I've noticed was that the motor noise is much quieter now, so either I tightened up the rubber bushes that fix it to the master cylinder or just cleaning it helped, not sure which did it.

Yeah I never got the second-hand accumulator off, my plan is just to take it to a mechanic and get them to put the motor-accumulator mount part in a bench vice and use a oil filter puller or stilsens to unscrew it, but good idea yeah. Now that its out of the car its much harder hold it steady to try and turn it.

The other motor looks in good condition so I might hold onto that too. I'm accumulating a range of spare Soarer parts just in case :-)

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