Last x Days Posts  1 | 3 | 7 Days  Search  Topics  Tree View  Help
  Soarer Central * Brakes * Installed new brake accumulator - need Help Previous Previous    Next Next  

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages
Open in new windowArchive through September 12, 2009Gary Redman30 
Open in new windowArchive through September 16, 2009Dave Rose30 
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page      

Author Message
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 315
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 03:04 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave I will recheck tonight. My problem is a little different to Elizabeth's because my pump shuts down when the ignition is turned off. I believe Elizabeth's kept running. When the engine is started my pump starts up and cycles on/off every 10 seconds and the brown relay keeps clicking in and out controlling the pump. When the engine is stopped the pump motor is not powered but the pump takes about another 20 seconds to run down and makes a bit of noise when doing this, probably because it is at full pressure. I know it is not a faulty pump as I have tried another one (unless it was faulty too - am I that unlucky?)
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 316
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 08:04 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This stranger again now. With the ignition switch on, but engine off, the pump starts going through it's cycle thing. I can make it stop by either pulling out the green or brown relay. Then I thought I would see what would happen if I disconnected the the pressure sensor on the side of the accumulator. The pump stopped which was anticipated, but then it started up again after about 30 seconds with no pressure switch connected. Then I decided to plug in the spare pressure switch that I had, but not with it connected to the accumulator, just in my hand, and it made the pump stop and start again also. Seems to do what it likes whether there is a pressure switch in the system or not. looks like my last hope is going to be with the auto electrician on Tuesday. After that it becomes an eBay special and I go buy a car that isn't possessed.
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1450
Reg: 08-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 08:15 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't let it beat you Gary.
I hope the auto lecky gets to the bottom of this and doesn't cost you the earth.
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
uzz31 v8

Posts: 955
Reg: 03-2007

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 09:05 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can only think its some form of one way valve not working ....when the pump has filled the accumulator the pump stops , but then feeds back through pump (this could be the noise you hear)must admit its all very strange ,have a feeling when its found its going to be something small and we will all kick ourselves.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 317
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 12:37 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well the Auto Electrician couldn't find out why the pump is continually cycling. I am now going to fit a 3rd mastercylinder and pump/accumulator assembly as a last resort just in case the second one I got was also faulty. Absolutely no more options left after this.
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1453
Reg: 08-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 03:06 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the pressure switch had a very narrow band then it would start/stop accordingly.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 318
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 04:27 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The crazy thing will operate even with the pressure switch unplugged. It does at least stop for a while and then gets possessed and starts up again.
Paul Drane
DieHard
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 775
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 04:48 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary, I thought you had this sorted, your car must be possessed.

Time for an exorcism.
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
uzz31 v8

Posts: 961
Reg: 03-2007

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 11:03 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

even if you join the pressure switch wires to complete the circuit (or earth if one wire)it still runs??
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
uzz31 v8

Posts: 967
Reg: 03-2007

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 10:51 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary been doing a bit of research did you get a 51 on diagnostics ? also did you check all three sensors (photo) only i was reading about someone who had this same problem ..turned out to be trac computer caps leaking.
Upload
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 319
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 12:24 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have another complete mastercylinder, accumulator, pump and switches arriving shortly that I will fit this weekend as a complete unit and probably my last resort. I also thought about the TRAC computer and replaced it with no change. assuming there is only one TRAC/ABS computer? It was located next to the engine computer under the pasenger footwell. I have been looking at second hand BMW 528i as they are going for around $10k and might be change from the Soarer which no longer likes me.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 323
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 06:05 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I fitted another complete unit and it still didn't fix it, but it is doing some different things though. The pump continues to run but it cycles now heaps faster (on/off/on continuously) but it doesn't over run when the engine is turned off like before, and it is bringing up a Klingon alarm on the dash. I'm going to swap the accumulator for the reco one I have just in case the one I just acquired is faulty. After that I am completely out of ideas and parts to change. We even tried to trade it in today on a new Holden that my missus likes, and the thieving card yard bastards are generously offering $5K trade in value. The wheels, tyres and paint cost more than that, and apart this brake issue, it is one of the tidiest Soarers around.
Brett Cutts
TryHard
south australia
tt and a v8 again woo hoo

Posts: 277
Reg: 07-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 08:50 pm, by:  Brett Cutts (Boof390) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mmmmmm I wasn't getting any dash alarms when i had what was left of the car running and it cycled relatively slowly then shut up after while. You are making me very glad all my soarers have a vacume booster. I dont suppose these things do anything strange when fluid bleeding with the abs module built in like it is and maybe the accumulator is trying to compensate for it. I know some european stuff has set procedures if you bleed before the abs unit or they do all sorts of freaky things Failing that I think the exorcism idea is sounding good
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
uzz31 v8

Posts: 974
Reg: 03-2007

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 09:39 pm, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary before you give up just have a look inside the TRAC computer (the one you changed) for leaky caps on the board, the reason i say this is they have had this happen a few times in the uk (Soarer World) went through 3 TRAC computers before they found one not leaking.good luck
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1458
Reg: 08-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 09:59 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary, I believe you should have had alarms from day 1, not that that's any help.
It's the TRC computer that turns on/off the pump after it gets the signal from the pressure switch.
I've only got the manual for the US SC400 type vacuum TRC booster pump system if that's any use to you. The logic behind it all should be fairly similar though.
Brett Cutts
TryHard
south australia
tt and a v8 again woo hoo

Posts: 279
Reg: 07-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 10:32 pm, by:  Brett Cutts (Boof390) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will pull the lid off the trac computer from my wreck if it looks ok and if you want to pay the postage your more than welcome to try it out
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 324
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 04:44 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK - After 3 mastercylinder assemblies, 2 TRAC computers, 4 accumulators, 1 visit to the auto electrician, and lots of my time. IT IS FIXED. Fitted the recoed accumulator to Bretts mastercylinder assy and the pump only started when the brake pedal was applied and then shut off again shortly after. Now I can go and watch the footy on telly. Bretts accumulator came off with a massive explosion even though the car had not been started for 24 hours and I pumped the pedal 20 times before removing. I got a brake fluid shower and the piston below the accumulator has gone into the stratosphere. Fortunately I have spares of everything now. At the end it would appear that my mastercylinder failed within the ABS/TRAC block and then the next one I got from Paul must have also been faulty (Paul warned me it had been partially disassembled before I got it) and then Bretts mastercylinder was good but his accumulator wasn't. I also discovered some minor differences between assemblies but it doesn't seem to affect anything. Some of the heat shields and wiring are run in different areas which must have been a mod on later rthan 91 models. You can identify the different cylinders as the early model one has 2 seperate brackets at the front and side to support the throttle and TRAC cables. The later one from Brett with the different wiring layout and heat shields only has one cable support bracket with a larger clip for both cables. I want to thank everyone that has taken the time to help out with posts and also sending me parts. Even the Newcastle Lexus dealer was helpful to some extent as he offered to plug in their computer free of charge but warned me that they only had the codes and info for the US models, but at least he offered. Thank you again to all that contributed.
Peter Nitschke
Junk Filterer
South Australia
UZZ30 UZZ31

Posts: 10949
Reg: 11-2004

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 05:24 pm, by:  Peter Nitschke (Pen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary, thanks for documenting this issue, hopefully it will help others as these cars get older.

I bet you are feeling pretty good now that it's over? :-)
Dave Hart
Goo Roo
Waikato
UZZ32

Posts: 1459
Reg: 08-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 05:46 pm, by:  Dave Hart (Davyboy) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bet you're happy to get that monkey off your back.
Brett Cutts
TryHard
south australia
tt and a v8 again woo hoo

Posts: 280
Reg: 07-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 07:16 pm, by:  Brett Cutts (Boof390) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

finally
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 325
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 08:10 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't want to open the bonnet again for a year.
If nothing else, I can now swap out the mastercylinder/accumulator assy and bleed the system in under 2 hours. It was very close to getting sold very cheap and I was even pondering "how much is this thing insured for?" Now we can get back to driving it as I have restricted it's use to very short runs so the pump didn't overheat. As Peter said, hopefully this will help someone else as well.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 328
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 09:21 am, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just another follow up on this problem. The brakes are working perfectly and the pump only comes on at start up and after about every 3 or 4 pedal applications, but the pump is very noisey. Inside the car it sounds reaaaallly loud and is pretty annoying, but from under the bonnet it sounds normal.
In all the years I have had the car I have never heard the pump from inside before. The pump rubber mounts are fine and the original gasket is still between the mastercylinder and firewall. Any ideas on why the pump would be so noisey? I don't think it is because of air but I will go back and bleed it again
Aiden Cheese
TryHard
QLD
Soarer jzz30

Posts: 109
Reg: 09-2009

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:55 am, by:  Aiden Cheese (Chillpen) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get someone to sit inside and pump the pedal while you listen from outside? Curious that it would be so noisy from the inside and not the out..
Dave Rose
DieHard
wa
uzz31 v8

Posts: 981
Reg: 03-2007

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 11:10 am, by:  Dave Rose (Sand_groper) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it fouling something under the bonnet.
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 330
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 11:56 am, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll check around it later but there isn't much else that shouldn't be there to get in the way. Bloody Toyota had to re-invent the vacuum booster didn't they!
Paul Drane
DieHard
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 799
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 02:09 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would off said the rubber mounts Gary but you reckon they are OK.

There is nothing around the pump for it foul on, this is minor compared to fixing the other problem.
Brett Cutts
TryHard
south australia
TT & V8

Posts: 352
Reg: 07-2008

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Friday, October 16, 2009 - 06:20 pm, by:  Brett Cutts (Boof390) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

exorcism anyone
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 331
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:28 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing touching anywhere. Just a nosy pump motor for some reason
Gary Redman
TryHard
NSW
UZZ31

Posts: 332
Reg: 09-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 02:40 pm, by:  Gary Redman (Gary) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK got sick of the noise and pulled the assembly out again (lost count of how many times now) Removed the pump and replaced it with one of the other ones I had and reinstalled. THEN the original fault comes back and the pump starts cycling on it's own. Crack the sh*ts and take the assembly back out and put the first pump back on. Works perfect and the noise is gone. WTF. I am going to walk past it very softly in case it sees me coming and goes nutso again. Hopefully I will never have to post in this topic again
Paul Drane
DieHard
QLD
V8 Limited

Posts: 814
Reg: 07-2005

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 06:15 pm, by:  Paul Drane (Paulwd) Quote hilighted text Edit Post Delete Post Print Post   View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin Only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your car is possessed Gary, you dont happen to call it Christine do you.

Add Your Message Here
Eye Candy
Click for full size
Bold text Italics Underline Center Text Upload photo from your hard drive Make a List Make a Table Make an Image Thumbnail Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image Formatting Help
         

Username: Important Posting Information:
If asking a question, have you done a search to see if your question has already been answered?
Be aware that the use of SMS-speak eg "u" instead of "you" etc, will get your post deleted.
Password:
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message

  Administration Administration      Log Out Log Out Previous Previous      Next Next